First The Heretic posts:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Heretic
There's no way one side will win a military or paramilitary fight with the other. The Israeli public has the right idea. Decalre a ceasefire, get out of the occupied lands and let things cool off for the next couple decades.
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Then you reply with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambers92
Unfortunately, the Israeli government doesn't care that 64% of it's citizens favor talks with Hamas and want peace.
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To which I replied by pointing out the rather obvious problem of trying to form decisions based on bad data.
Now you post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambers92
I believe the poll is a recent one from Haaretz. Which makes sense because Hamas was created in 1987 so there was no way Israelis would have felt the need for a dialogue with Hamas 20 years ago. Hamas didn't have any power or control over the Palestinian people back then..
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Sighting a newspaper poll:
“
Poll: Most Israelis back direct talks with Hamas on Shalit
By Yossi Verter, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Gilad Shalit, Likud, Hamas
Sixty-four percent of Israelis say the government must hold direct talks with the Hamas government in Gaza toward a cease-fire and the release of captive soldier Gilad Shalit. Less than one-third (28 percent) still opposes such talks.
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I must ask you to forgive my confusion here. It is not that I do not sympathize with Shalit, or his family. This poll of yours is concerned with a prisoner exchange. Which has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
The Israeli government does not negotiate with terrorists, or kidnappers. Since it only encourages them to commit even more crimes. So this newspaper conducts a poll to see if their readers agree with the governments position. Which is fine . . . But what does any of this have to do with your claim:
“64% of it's citizens favor talks with Hamas and want peace.” Peace . . .
As in the end of the war; and a prisoner exchange. Are two separate things. All I see here are apples, and oranges. For that matter . . . I am unable to find anything in your article about ‘peace’!
On the other hand. Hamas has already broken off three indirect talks for Shalit’s release. Hamas demands that the Israeli government is to release over a thousand criminals from prison, in exchange for one Israeli soldier. The Israeli government cannot submit to these demands. Hamas has repeatedly refused any, and all indirect negotiations in this matter. (Keeping in mind the difference between negotiations, and making demands!)
Direct negotiations are out of the question. As long as Hamas continues to renounce the existence of Israel, the Israeli government cannot openly endorse Hamas as a legitimate government. For the Israeli government to openly accept Hamas as an equal, would violate every law on the books about dealings with a “Terrorist State”!!! Hamas is a terrorist organization, that encourages (demands) the use of open terrorism against civilian targets, in a blatant (and illegal) attempt to overthrow a legitimate government.
Not to mention the fact that if Israel should recognize Hamas as the legitimate government, instead of the PA? It would completely undermine Abbas, The Fatah party, the “Palestinian Authority” as the internationally recognized governing authority for the so called ‘Palestinian People”! Not to mention that it would precipitate another civil war between the ‘Palestinians”. Either that or start a run, with everyone and their mother demanding to be recognized as legitimate governments. Turning the “Two State” solution into the “Two Hundred State” solution!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chambers92
Which talks are you refering to? I don't recall that Israel has ever agreed to hold talks with Hamas. Don't you think it's critical for them to start engaging in some sort of dialogue with Hamas? Whether they agree to recognize Israel or not. They need to agree to a cease fire and then start holding some talks. What's the alternative?
Are the raids on Gaza, the collective punishment on the citizens of Gaza, the sanctions, is any of that working? Is Israel any safer? Have the rocket attacks stopped? The answer is no.
Nothing is going to change unless the killing stops. And the settlements start coming down.
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What talks am I talking about? THE TALKS. Bush’s “Road Map to Peace” talks. I am sure that you must have heard about them. Especially since I posted (post #13 of this thread) an AP story about them. The ones that Hamas is trying to stop with their rocket, and mortar barrages on Israeli civilians.
Hamas wants to stop the talks, mostly because the talks affirm Abbas, and the PA as the legitimate government. While Hamas wants the world to recognize them instead. So nothing (short of brut force) is going to stop the attacks, until the rest of the world recognizes Hamas instead of the PA.
As for the question about Hamas ever recognizing Israel. The whole purpose of Hamas is to destroy Israel. They cannot recognize Israel, without admitting that they are nothing more than the terrorists that they are. In other words: By recognizing Israel, Hamas would be admitting that their war against Israelis is wrong.
You really need to learn to believe these people when they talk. These people are serious.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE TO THESE PEOPLE!!! Why do you refuse to believe them??? The war between Hamas, and Israel is to the death. Israel is not going anywhere, even if the Israeli people had somewhere to go. So unless Hamas changes, the killing is not going to stop, until there is no one left to kill. A “cease fire” does nothing other than to prolong the war.
Nothing is going to stop the killing, as long as both Hamas, and Israel exist!!!