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QUOTE=Titanium Cat;151781 But you are worrying about an unlikely event that if does occur won’t occur until the Arctic is dramatically warmer than it is now. By 2100 temperatures in much of the Arctic are projected to be about 5˚C warmer overall and 7+˚C in the winter. There would no longer be a permanent ice pack and the effects of regional cooling would not be as severe as you are saying. Quite frankly if it gets to the point where we have a rapid melting of the Greenland icecap to disrupt the MOC, I think the danger from fast rising sea levels will be a much greater problem.
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I'm not worrying about anything...just having a discussion.
And where will the danger come from? Some will come from things we sort of predict. Some will come from total surprises. No matter the models, no one knows precisely what is going to happen and when. All we can do is watch, and each time there is another event, hopefully it will provide more validation to the models, and somewhere down the road more than six people will actually care.
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Come on, my use of the expressions “I think” and “fairly certain” clearly indicate that I am not claiming they are absolutes.
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I disagree...when someone says 'fairly certain' this is not an absolute but it is a solid statement not having much wiggle room.
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Climate change isn’t binary though, there will always be a level at which it approaches equilibrium. If that level is low enough the damage will be minor to moderate. It’s not too late to at the very least reduce that maximum limit. There would be a huge difference in problems created between a 2 degree warming and a 4 to 6 degree warming.
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Sounds fine...but no one knows exactly 'what' to do, 'how much' to do it, and 'when' it must be done. And I don't care what anyone says, without a global consensus and all the major CO2 contributors working in tandem, it won't make any difference what I do in my little corner of this world.
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No I don’t think that I missed the point. Forbes and many people like him don’t share the same beliefs as the vast majority of scientists do simply because they don’t want to, it has nothing to do with the science or a failure to communicate it. There will always be those who prefer selfish choices.
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You missed the point again...no matter, there are millions of people like Forbes and until these people can find some interest, it will be nearly impossible for any appreciable efforts to be achieved.
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Which is precisely the plan that right wing “think” tanks and politicians owned by the energy industry have implemented. Confuse and delay. The longer the better.
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Too bad the American public is not smart enough to read, research, and decide on their own.
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I don’t think that makes Americans much different than anyone else. What is probably different in the US is the overall political process which is much less responsive to change and easily hijacked by special interests. The economics are also somewhat different as well, look at countries like Japan, Germany, France, Italy etc., they have very little domestic fossil resources so moving to clean/renewable energy makes even more sense for them.
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All countries have oil dependence issues except in different extremes. All of us have the same choices.
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But you see this isn’t necessarily so. I think from a personal level it will be several small changes rather than a few big changes. The country should start changing how it plans its cities and suburbs and the infrastructure that supports them, but that will be a long process that will change how future generations live.
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This is like every other major issue that faces the US. We have been talking about this stuff forever and we will continue to talk about it forever. Not a single major issue has been improved to the satisfaction of a majority of Americans. We have SS, health care, the debt, Iraq, crumbling infrastructure, etc. etc. etc. and all we do is talk about these issues. We seem incapable of finding consensus, therefore we cannot unite, therefore we cannot accomplish anything.
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Again there is a credible consensus in the scientific community. Forbes is not convinced because he doesn’t want to be convinced. The message is getting out as more and more state and local level politicians sign on to reducing emissions. But there is still a long way to go especially on the federal level. Bush & company have spent seven years playing a shell game with the issue, pretending that they think it’s serious but at the same time working in the background to minimize the issue and any meaningful changes to combat it.
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There is so much that can be done at the individual level, from actually taking steps to be more sustainable, to understanding the issues, to contacting their representatives. I live in a great area, rural, professionals, business, and yet today I see in the newspaper they are having sales for the Prius car. Now if my area cannot understand the need to do better, and buy these types of cars, then it will be a century or more before others pay attention...