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Originally Posted by michelemichele
Groan
Mal. This is me. I mean, you & a couple others who went to FB lengths to get me over here weren't pining for my music video posts, were you?
Yes, Mal. I know, Mal. Kick Mal.
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Hey, you know U96, so your music posts are not all bad
And the Perfect Day of course....
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Originally Posted by michelemichele
Hindsight - applicable in some cases: total cop out in others. Those who now admit 'the coalition of the willing' had no way to anticipate the resulting shitstorm tell those of us who saw it coming say we're running on hindsight.
Come on now. Some things are hard to size up, sure, and Sudan may be one example. Other situations aren't that difficult.
You've access to my FB page. When you've got a moment, go to that page, check out the books, write something on my wall so I know you've been there, then I'll be (ecstatic to) recommend the best of those titles. It's like pieces of a puzzle falling in place. I dunno, getting a grasp on these things is a big deal to me (no life, no life). If you don't have time, OK.
...But when I talk with you about Rwanda, I'm not going out on the limb I would be if Sudan as a focus, and you don't have to take my word for it: there are people who know more, write well, and a few (not many) books later, at the very least, you'd see what I'm on about -- even if you still disagree with some principles viz-a-viz (an overhauled) UN.
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Lol, i did... you have a lot of books.
As it happens, i was helping a friend help a couple of chix move yesterday, and hunted down her Collapse (by Diamond) on a bookshelf... Wanted to read that one for a while now. BTW, was Porno as good as Trainspotting? Those are another couple on my "must read list".
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Look. The UN had all the info it needed to make those informed decisions: that information was set aside. Hardly unique, really, organizations - and individual people - do it all the time.
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Kofi Annan said he didn't trust that info in that documentary; he said intelligence can be used to manipulate. That's very wise of him, imo (see - Iraq and WMDs).
If I can think of a way to sum it up better without wandering all the hell over the playing field, I'll write it in another post.
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Wtf. I dunno, is it really such massive leap of logic when one nation's in there two? three? weeks after its government decided to act (RE Rwanda - France). Standing armies make a difference? +/- whatever ammendities (supplies, training) those troops may or may not enjoy depending on the nation?
'Reading books and reports written after events' - oh boy. Read a few of them before writing them off.
**shakes head**
Like... You really think such a thing would be necessary. (shaking head again)
Lack of info/data - whatever - isn't usually the problem eh. Minimizing its relevence is. 9/11's a pretty good example, Nazi Germany's another.
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Overhyping isn't too good either... Lol, and no, i don't think UN will be going through your garbage
but... still, it's not that easy to interpret the info properly. Most of the killings were done with machetes. How to tell if i buy a machete to cut neighbors, or bushes?
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(leaving us into another brutal question, but there's this Caesar IV game I want to try - fuckin thing's in French, goddamnit)
Well yeah, & all our countries have gone through long periods of absolutism. I already used that deep thought haven't I (game is calling me).
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Ah, Ceasar IV, i've heard about it... Not sure if i ever tried to though... Think been busy playing Hearts of Iron II back then
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Just one question: don't we enable some at our convenience, for 'the wrong reasons' mentioned in another post? (this doesn't mean: invade)
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Indeed we do, and we shouldn't...
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80% agreement with you, only... seems like revolution now would be a harder fight than it was a century ago, and usually, things get worse (Kagame's an exception).
Do you mean arming people without going in? I have a lot of problems with this idea.
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Well, if there were no outsiders tilting the battlefield unfairly, it wouldn't be that hard, imo (the revolution bit). And no, no arming anybody.
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Aha I knew it. Must be my emoting. Here I agree, actually. Could be those business people aren't so rare, but at this time, they seem that way, esp after decades? centuries?-long arrangements where gov't & business interests become one.
...Not that I think all aid should be severed, but there isn't a lot of intelligence with much of it, unless Goma's relief camps were an exception to the rule.
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Relief camps are all great and such, but it will hardly help in the long term... I've read Diamond's chapter on Rwanda. Lol, no wonder they had a genocide... 3%/year population growth with densities greater than in the UK in a country without mechanized agriculture. No wonder they killed both Hutus and Tutsies in large part without distinction... No wonder they used machetes and so many people were doing the killings... Ethnic hatred was just an excuse - in reality it was just poor desperate people stealing land from slightly less poor and desperate people... Population in Rwanda continues to grow at 3%/year. Barring some miracle, i bet they'll have another genocide in the next decade... And then another... and another...
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fuckmegentlywithachainsawwhataquestion
You call that a simple scenario.
Can I have a day to think this over please. If your plane was Russian or Chinese or American, it's an omfg situation.
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Sure, it's a very slow flying plane. And they stop for donuts
Remember, you are a UN peace keeper, you are well armed and equipped, and have means at your disposal to shoot the plane down. There is no significant threat to your life in either case, so the only consequences are political/diplomatic.
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Not really... (try 'conflicted').
A lot of solutions are more like untried theories, which may or may not 'work', take time, and require first-world countries set aside a few of our own interests. Some of those would hurt. Some are really strange -- sorry, Africa again: IE - how do you redraw a continent's borders and on whose say so?
This was a great documentary, not depressing, not fluffy happy:
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
In a way, off topic. Or maybe not, just goes back to a point you were making yourself about education.
PS: Apologies to those disgusted with my verbiage - angry Canadians swear a lot
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My very strong desire not to answer questions such as these is the main reason i'm a non-interventionist.
The honest answer is i have no clue how to redraw their borders, and i doubt many people do aside from Africans themselves... British/Belgian/French imperialists knew that answer quite well, but that did any good for Africans....