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Originally Posted by mentor
Certainly certain religious ideas can be evil. Others may be good. All of these will depend upon context.
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That's just absurd. Ideas aren't physical, only the men who interpret them can act malicious.
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Originally Posted by mentor
But belief is important to one's behavior. If a man believes it will rain he may choose to carry an umbrella. If he believes that I may cause his children to stray from salvation and eternity in paradise with him, he will do anything to stop me.
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And thus you prove my point. It is not an idea that acts, it's a man's perception of that idea that leads him to act. And NEVER is it an uncontrollable compulsion to act. It is often quite decisive. Men who behave like this will have behaved this way regardless of Religion. They wrongfully seek permission in their religion instead of using what God actually did give him, his reason, to decide whether or not to act.
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Originally Posted by mentor
From an anthropological point of view, it appears that religion did evolve to govern people. It provides structure to communities and helps them adapt to their territories better than their rivals. I would argue that religion is a mechanism of control, and that spiritual growth is just a side effect.
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The Idea never evolved, it was stolen, perverted and misused. That's my point.
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Originally Posted by mentor
I propose a different view of religion than you do. One which many would see as less favorable, perhaps. But I don't see it that way. I believe organized religion (for the purpose of control) no longer has a valid role in society today because we have developed far better institutions of government. Still, religion played a pivotal role of government and control in our path to civilization. Also, the idea of spiritual quest which grew from it is a good one among many good ideas to come from these institutions. But we must remain constantly vigilant against the many, many bad ideas to come out of our religions as well. All ideas are not created equal. And some religious ideas deserve ridicule at the very least. However, your point that to do so at the detriment of your own ideas is well taken.
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You're still attributing the actions of men to an resident of the ether. If these people didn't have religion to act in the name of, it would've been something else. Patriotism comes to mind. I often meet people whose Patriotism is on par with religious zealotry.
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Originally Posted by mentor
Despite any differences, you are right that we should try and discuss these things civilly. But we should also practice forgiveness when we digress.
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That is a founding principle of Religion.
And I agree.