Insipid

I think it's pretty cheap, especially since you KNOW it's a song you like. And the examples i gave average about .50 per song. Hence the purpose of this thread. It's NOT to assist people in how to accomplish illegal activities.

By the way, anyone know a good place to get some hash in Cleveland?

brian_wilbanks

The definition and meaning of stealing has been modified for modern times.Pretty much as a way to protect rich people.

If I steal your car. I have your car....and you're walking to work in the rain.THAT'S stealing

If I never have any intention of buying your CD because I'm too cheap and I sit and wait for someone who did purchase it to let me borrow it so I can record it, you'll live your entire life and never know the difference.

There will always be a group of people who will buy CD's...and eventually, if people do stop buying music, the death of the commercial music industry will be the greatest thing since the invention of the dildo. MTV, RCA, SONY...fuck em all


yeah, Sharron Osbourne wanted to make 10 million this year and she only made 6 million because of all the stealing....so now she cant buy Jack a Lambourghini for his birthday....ohhhh the humanity.



Fuck Lars Ulrich in his goddamn ass

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If you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cuz I'm about to burn one down.

Insipid

The definition of stealing hasn't changed, you've changed it to justify your actions. I did it once when i was in my 20s. I faked a back injury to take money from the big bad insurance agency which rips off its customers. Then i grew up and realized that there are other ways of "fighting" for insurance reform than willfully stealing from them. I didn't want to think of myself as a thief, so i justified it by saying that i was stealing from thieves. I STILL think they're thieves but i don't steal from them. I wish to be better than they are. You don't want to think of yourself as a thief, so you changed the definition of stealing. Cognitive dissonance 101.

Whether you download it from a friend, or off the internet or take it from a record store it's stealing. You do the first two because you KNOW you can get away with it. You don't do the later because you don't have that certainty.

Furthermore, i find it VERY hard to believe that since you started illegally downloading music there's not ANY CD's or downloads you'd buy legally. That were it not for the ability to download you'd be bereft of music and entertainment. You might have less, but you'd still have. Believe me, i aint' rich. My medical bills alone stop that.

Also you seem to be using two contradictory arguments to justify your actions: 1. The record companies are EVIL and the artists aren't really making the money anyway and 2. The artists are making too much money, and don't need it to buy their son another sports car.

brian_wilbanks

But you took money from someone that they had already earned.

Am I stealing if I sit on the top of a hill next to my house and listen to an outdoor concert and watch it with my binocs?

If I dont take something away from you.....it's not stealing.

That's just the way I see it, and no amount of corporate lawyer intellectual property horseshit from the FBI and cybercrime.gov will ever convince me otherwise.


EVER

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If you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cuz I'm about to burn one down.

Insipid

You yourself admitted that you were taking something from them a moment ago when you stated that the only ramifications for the illegal downloads was that rich rock stars wouldn't be able to buy sports cars for their kids (the they're rich anyway, defense). Your justification then was that yes, you're stealing, yes they're losing, but they're still rich. Again, i could use that justification to steal from Walmart. I honestly can't fathom why ANYONE would shop at a store who's sole aim is to get 10 people wealthy and the rest of the WORLD poor. But though i believe that, i'm STILL not going to steal from them, even though i'm stealing from the wealthiest people on earth. And THEY'RE thieves to boot.

If you sneak into the concert without paying it's stealing. If it's out in the open, it's not stealing. I'm not being "lawyerly" by stating what the law actually is. In fact, if anything, you're the one being "lawyerly" in arguing a "defense". You're basically arguing mitigating circumstances and poverty. But that's not the real reason. You're doing it because you know you can't get caught.

I guarantee you that if tomorrow there was a headline of 500,000 people arrested and sentenced to 10 years for illegal downloads you'd probably never steal music again. And you'd find a way to get music. Legally. You might get less of it, but you'd still get it. So let's not pretend it's for any hatred of the record industry or spoiled artists or even because you're too poor. It's stealing that's easy and risk free and common. And that's why you do it.


Which is fine and valid, actually. But too honest for most folks to admit.

brian_wilbanks

I was actually giving a sarcastic response to your assertion that artists are losing money because of Illegal DL'ing. How can you lose money that you never had? I dont know how you could even prove such a claim.

No, it's trespassing. You pay admission to get into the building or venue. If I live next to an outdoor ampitheatre and watch the concert from my rooftop, rather than pay my money to go sit on the grass with the rest of the crowd....am I stealing?

If they started cutting peoples heads off for smoking weed tomorrow, I'd just have to quit....but that doesnt make it right.


Downloading music is NOT stealing....it's sharing.

Why people do it is irrelevant.

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If you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cuz I'm about to burn one down.

disfigured

First of all let's make one thing very clear. I didn't say I stole anything , I said "I don't pay". There's a difference. I was first able to download songs for "free" because there was no ruling whether or not it was illegal. The reality of it is, the record companies used profits to have something once previously legal deemed illegal.

You haven't fully grasped the concept have you?

I can record a song from a friend who owns the CD, legally. As long as I didn't turn around and profit from it.

With the internet I now have millions of friends. Just as we here enjoy the company and opinions of many people when before the internet we couldn't. The music industry used profits to curry favor legally to have the meaning of borrow, lend, friend , acquaintance, and record, changed to benefit themselves . I didn't change any of these things. I just acquired many more acquaintances and a technology to transfer information to and from them.

There's nothing sophistic about it. I used to do something, they made it illegal, I refuse to stop because I still believe they are wrong. I haven't attempted to justify it in anyway, I don't have to justify what I feel isn't wrong. Nor have I tried to in this thread.

When you don't shoot the guy with the blinker on doing 40mp, are you speeding? Do you know how many people would survive crashes if the 55mph speed limit was obeyed by everyone?

Yeah, think about that the next time your throwing around your "Peace and Harmony" song and dance. Last time I checked no one died from my downloading of songs. When was the last time you didn't speed on the highway?

Yeah I thought so...... you do it all the time. I guess that little inconvenience of "obeying the law" is O.K for you not to do so, but mine's not. Even though obeying the speed limit is based on public safety, environmentalism and common decency. . While downloading songs is deemed illegal based on the vague meanings of words like friend, lend, and record.

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brian_wilbanks

bingo

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If you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cuz I'm about to burn one down.

BleedingPinky

Are mp3 albums sold on whatever site neatly packaged as records were? Is there a need for placing a dime to avoid scratches while listening to it and reading the sleeve? I don´t think so. Meantime I´ll keep using ptp. If you want to make money as a musician, move your ass and go book some live gigs.

Insipid

You're mis-reading the decision of the court. It was ALWAYS deemed stealing then and now. Your friend giving you the song that he purchased is also deemed stealing. It was then, it is now. Even the attorney's for Napster stipulated that downloading copyrighted songs is illegal. Their argument was that the free speech issues outweighed the illegality of the act. That though people downloaded copyrighted material illegally, they also shared aunt tilly's cookie recipee, therefore the site should continue. The judge said, bullshit and shut that shit down.

Your argument seems to be that because you wouldn't buy it, therefore it's not stealing because it's money they would not of possessed anyway. Again, i question whether or not you would do without entirely were it not for your ability to get something free. But can't i use that argument to steal anything, not just intellectual property? I would never pay 400 dollars for a jacket, therefore when i take it, it's not stealing because this is money they never would of possessed. I wouldn't normally buy that song, but because it's free i'll download it. The artist isn't out anything because it's money they never would of possessed anyway.

The whole purpose of paying for things is to force people to do without things that they want until the point where they can afford it or they just decide to do without it.

Also, i wish you guys would stop pretending that the law is some nebulous thing that's so difficult to understand that you might as well just break it because it's SOOOOO difficult to keep track of. If you're listening to a concert from your house it's not stealing. If you record the concert it is stealing. If you watch the concert from your house it's not trespassing, if you sneak in the building it is. The law is clear, you're playing dumb because you want to do what you want to do when you want to do it. Fine and dandy, but stealing.

And shooting that motherucker going 40 in the speed lane with his right blinker on is not murder, it's pressure relief.

It IS stealing, the courts have ruled so hundreds of times. And the reason why people do it is because it's easy and safe. Stop pretending otherwise.