Comicsartist

Listen atcha.

Would you rather have a Pres who is willing to change his mind or one who sees the course and stays with it no matter how disastrous?

Mind you, Obama really has NOT changed his views. Take Itsmeeeee's advice and read Obama's official NAFTA policies.

CosmicRocker

Didn't i just say being amendable to change is a good thing??

But change needs to be because of a concrete reason, not simply because of a change from campaign rhetoric,
to the governing mode..

I se a lot of indecision, or vascillation in Obama.
That's not as bad as a slave to an orthodox dogma,
but it isn't all that good either.

Give me someone whom is consistent - willing to change if the reasons on the ground change,
but not because of political circumstances.

PS> I'm oing by what the article states.
I can't go thru all his " official positions", but if you want to boil it down for me, i'll be happy to listen.

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Get on the right thing
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Comicsartist

Don't expect this to happen all the time, man, but here is what his site says as well as a link to it:

Trade

Obama believes that trade with foreign nations should strengthen the American economy and create more American jobs. He will stand firm against agreements that undermine our economic security.

* Fight for Fair Trade: Obama will fight for a trade policy that opens up foreign markets to support good American jobs. He will use trade agreements to spread good labor and environmental standards around the world and stand firm against agreements like the Central American Free Trade Agreement that fail to live up to those important benchmarks. Obama will also pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports.
* Amend the North American Free Trade Agreement: Obama believes that NAFTA and its potential were oversold to the American people. Obama will work with the leaders of Canada and Mexico to fix NAFTA so that it works for American workers.
* Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama would update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs.
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Economy

Also, his original take on NAFTA:

Tuesday, Feb. 26: Debating in Cleveland, Ohio, both Clinton and Obama take identical stands on NAFTA. Both agree when pressed by NBC's Tim Russert that they would threaten to pull the U.S. out of NAFTA unless Canada and Mexico agree to new terms:

Moderator Tim Russert: Will you, as president, say we are out of NAFTA in six months?

Clinton: I have said that I will renegotiate NAFTA, so obviously, you'd have to say to Canada and Mexico that that's exactly what we're going to do. . . . Yes, I am serious. . . . I will say we will opt out of NAFTA unless we renegotiate it, and we renegotiate on terms that are favorable to all of America. . . .

Q: Senator Obama . . . Simple question: Will you, as president, say to Canada and Mexico, "This has not worked for us; we are out"?

Obama: I will make sure that we renegotiate, in the same way that Senator Clinton talked about. And I think actually Senator Clinton's answer on this one is right. I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced. And that is not what has been happening so far.

Source: Transcript, "The Democratic Debate in Cleveland," New York Times 26 Feb 2008.
FactCheck.org: The Facts About 'NAFTA-Gate'

Compare this to Oldman's post and get back to me.

CosmicRocker

It looks like both he and Clinton were jawboning this.
Why should foreign countries be up to re-negotiation?

I did like Hillary idea of a "trade prosecutor" to look for violations of NAFTA - which seems to be the real problem.
The Chinese won't open up their markets to us ( Japan also), in the same way we open ours up to theirs.

Thanks for the info.

__________________

Try a little love. and it cant go wrong
Get on the right thing
My little love, you cant go wrong
Get on the right thing .

DRS112

If they're a WTO member there is a court to administer punishment to those who break the rules...

China and Japan have squat to do with NAFTA though....

The prosecutor would do what though exactly?

CosmicRocker

I only heard Hillary discuss this in the debate.
It seems to me she was speaking of a " prosecutor" actually laying out a case where the specific terms of the agreements were violated.
That's how I understood it anyways.

__________________

Try a little love. and it cant go wrong
Get on the right thing
My little love, you cant go wrong
Get on the right thing .

OldManOnFire

First it was war-mongering towards Iran.

Then NAFTA is suddenly an okay program.

Today it is this:

June 19, 2008
Breaking: Obama decides to decline public financing
Posted: 09:28 AM ET

From CNN Political Unit

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Sen. Barack Obama has decided not to accept public financing for his campaign, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee told supporters Thursday.

In an e-mail message, Obama said his decision means that his campaign will forego over $80 million in public funds.

In exchange for taking public funds, candidates usually agree to a cap on the amount of money they can spend on their campaigns.

"It's not an easy decision, and especially because I support a robust system of public financing of elections," Obama wrote. "But the public financing of presidential elections as it exists today is broken, and we face opponents who've become masters at gaming this broken system."

Obama has repeatedly broken campaign fundraising records during the Democratic primary season. Since January of 2007, has raised over $272 million.

Sen. John McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, raised less than half of that, roughly $100 million, over the same period.

His advisers argue that the Illinois Democrat has setup a "parallel" public fundraising system by soliciting small donations over the Internet.

Two months ago, McCain criticized Barack Obama for appearing to backtrack from a previous commitment to accept public financing for his presidential campaign.

Steve Schmidt, a senior McCain adviser, told CNN that Obama's decision to opt out of the public financing system "a broken promise of staggering dimensions.

"Obama's candidacy is based on words and it seems like everyday


What will #4 be????

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

The_Heretic

__________________
"Enough!!" -so rang Barack Obama's voice off the walls of Mile High Stadium

CosmicRocker

LOL
Not surprising he's gone back on public finacing.
What's so "broken" about it? You get a certain amount, as does your opponent.
He'd be a complete fool to throw away his advantage in ability to raise funds.
He's anything but a fool.

The thing that gets me about Obama is that he wears the " new style" political robe,
but underneath he's simply another politician.

And that's fine - I just wish he would be honest about it.

__________________

Try a little love. and it cant go wrong
Get on the right thing
My little love, you cant go wrong
Get on the right thing .

Chantytown

Bullshit.

Any acceptance of public finance was always predicated on 1) free airtime for both candidates and 2) strict control of 527 slanders.

McCain hs made it clear he won't consider the latter, so fuck that noise.