McCain adviser apologizes for September 11 comment - Page 8

DRS112 · 06-25-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

No, I think corporations should pay for exporting jobs out of the country. I think they should treat other countries as our own and use the safest and cleanest technologies when they do employee in other nations. I think they should pay their fair share of taxes, not hide them in off shore company accounts and that bullshit. I think their employees should get health care before their CEO gets that next million dollar raise. Call me silly.

okay...separate discussion

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You typed economic Theory.

No actually it's finacial FACT...A company will take on a debt/equity structure that produces the lowest WACC(Weighted Asset Cost of Capital)

Which the formula looks like this...

Weight of debt * (cost of debt * 1- tax rate) + weight of equity * cost of equity.
wd(Rd*1-t)+We(Re)

So plugging numbers into that equation...the higher the tax rate the lower the cost of debt is going to be.

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Nevermind Profit is god. Nothing and no one else matters, just the holy stockholder.

overly simplistic and completly rhetoric

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The consumer has been screwed fopr a long time, so has the American taxpayer. But fuck them, right? Profit is god, all hail the holy stockholder.

I'm saying that is what you'd be doing.

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So how's your reality? Mine and millions more sucks. $4/gal gas, $3 gal milk. Mortgage foreclosures, etc etc etc

In my reality, corporations, like UBS and their gov't criminal accomplices, like Phil Gramm, are responsible for most of the bad shit happenning right now. Oh that's right, Profit is god, all hail the holy stockholder.

And....pointing out the cost of goods doesn't prove a thing....

Kanadesaga · 06-25-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

okay...separate discussion

It is the discussion. I view corporations as inherently evil. these are some of the reasons they are. you see them as the greatest thing since jesus.

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No actually it's finacial FACT...A company will take on a debt/equity structure that produces the lowest WACC(Weighted Asset Cost of Capital)

Which the formula looks like this...

Weight of debt * (cost of debt * 1- tax rate) + weight of equity * cost of equity.
wd(Rd*1-t)+We(Re)

So plugging numbers into that equation...the higher the tax rate the lower the cost of debt is going to be.

Yes, formulas are very nice. given the right formula I can prove anything.

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overly simplistic and completly rhetoric

and totally true.

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I'm saying that is what you'd be doing.

I'm saying we're fucked everyday by corporations.

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And....pointing out the cost of goods doesn't prove a thing....

Proves inflation.

DRS112 · 06-25-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

It is the disxcussion. I view corporations as inherently evil. these are some of thr reasons they are. you see them as the greatest thing since jesus.

I never said they were great...at least your honest and say you hate them...but I neither love nor loath them...

listen...you're a VERY intelligent person. And in some ways(even though I suck at it) I try to appeal to that intelligent rational side of you with the knowledge that I've accumulated....in the hopes that maybe you will better understand the system we work within and how to make it work for you, instead of relying on propaganda and rhetoric to skew your vision...

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Yes, formulas are very nice. given the right formula I can prove anything.

Okay...maybe you're missing the point....that formula is how ALL companies decide what ratio of debt/equity to use....I don't know how to make it any more clear...

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Proves inflation.

amongst other things...but it bears little relevance to what we're talking about.

Kanadesaga · 06-25-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

I never said they were great...at least your honest and say you hate them...but I neither love nor loath them...

Open your eyes and you will. didn't mean this the way it sounded.

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listen...you're a VERY intelligent person. And in some ways(even though I suck at it) I try to appeal to that intelligent rational side of you with the knowledge that I've accumulated....in the hopes that maybe you will better understand the system we work within and how to make it work for you, instead of relying on propaganda and rhetoric to skew your vision...

thank you. Feelings mutual! I I don;t quite get debt ratio in all its intracacies but I get the gist. Let's say, I'm looking at the forest, you're looking at the trees. and granted, hyperbole is a gift in my family.

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Okay...maybe you're missing the point....that formula is how ALL companies decide what ratio of debt/equity to use....I don't know how to make it any more clear...

No, and no offense but you're missing my point. the amount of debtratio is inconsequential to my argument that American corporations own this gov't and we all pay the price for it. that corporations are evil, with civil rights, my god they have the rights!

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amongst other things...but it bears little relevance to what we're talking about.

Perhaps if we picked a specific area of the economy. I am interested in wwhat you have to say, truly. You should be canonized for your patience with me. the crux of our disagreement seems to be that you feel unfettered free market is a good thing and I don't. I think corps have to well regulated and held accountable. by the gov't because no other entity can hope to fight a corporation and its resources.

anhailla · 06-25-2008, 03:06 PM

the original supporters of Capitalism had grave concerns about corporate powers...but DRS and I have been through this, I respect his views, however I agree with the view that corporations should never-ever be trusted without oversight from the people/consumers/government.

Kanadesaga · 06-25-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anhailla

the original supporters of Capitalism had grave concerns about corporate powers...but DRS and I have been through this, I respect his views, however I agree with the view that corporations should never-ever be trusted without oversight from the people/consumers/government.

My point exactly.

DRS112 · 06-26-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Open your eyes and you will. didn't mean this the way it sounded.

thank you. Feelings mutual! I I don;t quite get debt ratio in all its intracacies but I get the gist. Let's say, I'm looking at the forest, you're looking at the trees. and granted, hyperbole is a gift in my family.

No, and no offense but you're missing my point. the amount of debtratio is inconsequential to my argument that American corporations own this gov't and we all pay the price for it. that corporations are evil, with civil rights, my god they have the rights!

Perhaps if we picked a specific area of the economy. I am interested in wwhat you have to say, truly. You should be canonized for your patience with me. the crux of our disagreement seems to be that you feel unfettered free market is a good thing and I don't. I think corps have to well regulated and held accountable. by the gov't because no other entity can hope to fight a corporation and its resources.

Well my arguement is not that corporations are inherantly good or bad...or that they should be trusted...My whole point in bringing up the WACC was to show you how and why raising taxes for the sake of it would be detrimental. And to take it a step farther...it would increase the companies hurdle rate(taken from the WACC), meaning they take on less projects and thus less growth...since it would require larger returns to offset the cost of financing them.

So to what Anahaila and you are talking about...trust them? No...not anymore than I would trust anybody in any other sector of society...no matter what you're going to get bad people doing bad things....

Kanadesaga · 06-26-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Well my arguement is not that corporations are inherantly good or bad...or that they should be trusted...My whole point in bringing up the WACC was to show you how and why raising taxes for the sake of it would be detrimental. And to take it a step farther...it would increase the companies hurdle rate(taken from the WACC), meaning they take on less projects and thus less growth...since it would require larger returns to offset the cost of financing them.

So to what Anahaila and you are talking about...trust them? No...not anymore than I would trust anybody in any other sector of society...no matter what you're going to get bad people doing bad things....

No corps are evil. Because evil people use them to make money. It is the sole purpose of their existence. My analogy again, they are a caged bear, they must be controlled constantly, not allowed to do anything without close scrutiny and every penny must be accounted for publicly. Ownership must be transparent and ALL lobbyists must be made extinct.

eagleclaw · 06-26-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

No corps are evil. Because evil people use them to make money. It is the sole purpose of their existence. My analogy again, they are a caged bear, they must be controlled constantly, not allowed to do anything without close scrutiny and every penny must be accounted for publicly. Ownership must be transparent and ALL lobbyists must be made extinct.

WHO THE FUCK IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL THAT OVERSIGHT ?

you?

06-25-2008, 03:06 PM	#75 (permalink)
anhailla Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: iowa Posts: 4,545 Thanks: 187 Thanked 116 Times in 87 Posts	the original supporters of Capitalism had grave concerns about corporate powers...but DRS and I have been through this, I respect his views, however I agree with the view that corporations should never-ever be trusted without oversight from the people/consumers/government. __________________ ...either I go, or that wallpaper does. Oscar Wilde
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