Sacrifice at Pearl Harbor - Page 2

VKMHVM2 · 12-07-2007, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circus

If the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, lost terribly, and way less Americans died, the American public would still have supported a war.
I mean, it's ridiculous to suggest that Americans would have sat by passively saying "well, the japanese invaded with 6 carriers, dozens of battle ships, and hundreds of planes... but hell... only 500 Americans died. Lets give them a break. Hopefully the nice chaps have learned their lesson and won't do it again".
It's ridiculous on so many levels.

Governments that commit great atrocities against their own people to goad them into war rely on the refusal of the population to believe their own government could be so nefarious. Yet history shows that such acts are a common occurrence. You need to get a book, "Day of Deceit" by US Navy Commander Robert Stinnett. Using documents declassified in 1994 he proves that not only did FDR know the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, but that he had followed an 8-step plan by ONI Lt. Commander Arthur H. McCollum to goad Japan into the attack. What makes Stinnett's book an important one is that he agrees with what FDR did, which means his account of the deception is pretty well balanced with no ax to grind.

For those who have never studied the Pearl Harbor attack, the US Navy ordered the modern ships, over thirty in all, including all the carriers, out of Pearl Harbor the day before the Japanese showed up. Two explanations are given for this order. The first is that the carriers had to ferry a new air wing out to Midway island, the second (used in the film "Tora Tora Tora") that the carriers were being used as reconaissance ships. When the Japanese attack force arrived, all that was left in port were older WW1-vintage ships such as the USS Arizona and the USS Utah (which was so old it has already been converted from combat use to a gunnery training ship). In all, only three ships were actually lost to the Japanese attack. In contrast, the Point Honda disaster saw 9 US Navy destroyers run aground and wrecked in a fog bank, but they don't make movies about that one.

VKMHVM2 · 12-07-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circus

Well, it was Hitler that declared war on the United States, not the other way around.
So you can't say that the US was tricked into the European aspect of ww2.

Germany had a mutual defense treaty with Japan. FDR knew about this and suckered Hitler into declaring war. Pearl Harbor served as the back door entry into the European war.

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies

President Roosevelt (FDR) provoked the attack, knew about it in advance and covered up his failure to warn the Hawaiian commanders. FDR needed the attack to sucker Hitler to declare war, since the public and Congress were overwhelmingly against entering the war in Europe. It was his backdoor to war.

slowhand · 12-07-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKMHVM2

Germany had a mutual defense treaty with Japan. FDR knew about this and suckered Hitler into declaring war. Pearl Harbor served as the back door entry into the European war.

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies

President Roosevelt (FDR) provoked the attack, knew about it in advance and covered up his failure to warn the Hawaiian commanders. FDR needed the attack to sucker Hitler to declare war, since the public and Congress were overwhelmingly against entering the war in Europe. It was his backdoor to war.

Quote:

Sucker Hitler to declare war

Awwwwwwwww!..Poor fucking Hitler

If this country is too corrupt for you, then why dont you pack your fucking bags and screw..Talk about a compulsive bullshit artist..

Circus · 12-07-2007, 09:30 PM

FDR provoked the Pearl Harbour? I thought you were just saying that he pretended not to know about it?

Okay, so war hungry Japan invades Manchuria. Then they invade China. Then they invade Mongolia. Then they invade vietnam and cambodia. Then they invade Malasia, Hong Kong, and Thailand.
Then they attack the US. Are you really trying to make the US look like the bad guys on this one? It was Japan that was the war monger.
Jesus christ.

VKMHVM2 · 12-07-2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Circus

FDR provoked the Pearl Harbour? I thought you were just saying that he pretended not to know about it?

As I said, documents declassified in 1994 prove that not only did FDR know the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, but that he had followed an 8-step plan by ONI Lt. Commander Arthur H. McCollum to goad Japan into the attack.

Circus · 12-07-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKMHVM2

Germany had a mutual defense treaty with Japan. FDR knew about this and suckered Hitler into declaring war. Pearl Harbor served as the back door entry into the European war.

Hitler had no obligations to declare war on the US. Japan also had no obligations.
Afterall, the Soviet Union and Japan were at peace from 1939 to 1945.

VKMHVM2 · 12-07-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKMHVM2

Governments that commit great atrocities against their own people to goad them into war rely on the refusal of the population to believe their own government could be so nefarious. Yet history shows that such acts are a common occurrence. You need to get a book, "Day of Deceit" by US Navy Commander Robert Stinnett. Using documents declassified in 1994 he proves that not only did FDR know the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, but that he had followed an 8-step plan by ONI Lt. Commander Arthur H. McCollum to goad Japan into the attack. What makes Stinnett's book an important one is that he agrees with what FDR did, which means his account of the deception is pretty well balanced with no ax to grind.

For those who have never studied the Pearl Harbor attack, the US Navy ordered the modern ships, over thirty in all, including all the carriers, out of Pearl Harbor the day before the Japanese showed up. Two explanations are given for this order. The first is that the carriers had to ferry a new air wing out to Midway island, the second (used in the film "Tora Tora Tora") that the carriers were being used as reconaissance ships. When the Japanese attack force arrived, all that was left in port were older WW1-vintage ships such as the USS Arizona and the USS Utah (which was so old it has already been converted from combat use to a gunnery training ship). In all, only three ships were actually lost to the Japanese attack. In contrast, the Point Honda disaster saw 9 US Navy destroyers run aground and wrecked in a fog bank, but they don't make movies about that one.

Read Stinnett's book. He agrees with what FDR did.

Circus · 12-07-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKMHVM2

As I said, documents declassified in 1994 prove that not only did FDR know the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, but that he had followed an 8-step plan by ONI Lt. Commander Arthur H. McCollum to goad Japan into the attack.

Japan was invading colonies of American allies. Of course the US created embargoes against them.
Japan had invaded like 10 countries spanning 10 years.
America "goaded" them. Ridiculous.

VKMHVM2 · 12-07-2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhand

Awwwwwwwww!..Poor fucking Hitler

If this country is too corrupt for you, then why dont you pack your fucking bags and screw..Talk about a compulsive bullshit artist..

Hitler was stupid enough to think that Pearl Harbor really had caught us off guard. He fell for it.

Circus · 12-07-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VKMHVM2

Read Stinnett's book.

Can you explain to me why the US had to conspire to intentionally lose the battle at Pearl Harbour?
Wouldn't Japan invading be enough to persuade the American public?

12-07-2007, 09:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
Circus Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 580 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	FDR provoked the Pearl Harbour? I thought you were just saying that he pretended not to know about it? Okay, so war hungry Japan invades Manchuria. Then they invade China. Then they invade Mongolia. Then they invade vietnam and cambodia. Then they invade Malasia, Hong Kong, and Thailand. Then they attack the US. Are you really trying to make the US look like the bad guys on this one? It was Japan that was the war monger. Jesus christ.
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