sunflower

A recent poll cited on the MSNBC Tucker Carlson show indicated the one third of Americans believe the government was somehow complicit in the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 Truth activists are becoming more visible (HBO Bill Maher show) and stepping up their campaign in confronting candidates such as "9/11" Rudy Giuliani.

As the election year soon descends upon us, I was wondering why some citizens bother to seek truth and justice. In social movements of the past to eliminate slavery or apartheid, or for voting rights or civil rights, the activist vanguard are at first detested and scorned by the ruling minority and the public majority. Also, mass denial of the issues may make progress toward resolving inequalities or corruption a long and winding road with many detours and setbacks.

And there are certain individuals within social/political movements for change who detract from the effectiveness of the activism by using controversial or unethical tactics. Civil rights leaders were condemned when activism became violence.

The latest social movement -- 9/11 Truth -- is working tirelessly to hold the current administration accountable for the events before, during, and after 9/11/2001. Some within this movement for justice are ex-military and CIA, scientists, engineers, architects, and academics.

Some are credible sources and a few are wackos. In the 9/11 Truth movement, a few crazy conspiracy theories detracts and distracts from legitimate questions. But dissent within the ranks occurs in all social movements. Malcolm X lead an aggressive faction within the civil rights movement.

The important thing to remember is to stay focused on the issues raised, not the individual personalities.

Tom Gorman, now a Realtor in Flagstaff, received a degree in journalism and has written for newspapers in California and Oregon.

http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2...opinion_50.txt

MarkMiller

If everyone who was involved in the 9-11 Truth movement were to simply lay things out like this....people would listen. However when I first attempted to obtain information to make a judgement myself on both Bill Maher message boards I got some pretty whacked out replies and the few that weren't wacko refused to allow me to question the documents or the science (or lack thereof) at all. It lead me to question if (and I say this a lot) they are on the right track....but missed the train.

I'll be the first to say I don't believe the story given by the Bush Administration, but that doesn't mean I have to believe every other explanation.

I believe that our government knew something was about to happen and that planes were to be involved. I believe that they allowed it to happen thinking it would not amount to much more than the previous attack and would give them the excuse they needed to go to war with Iraq. I believe the war was planned from the day Bush took office and perhaps even sooner than that. Cheney has been looking for any excuse to take power...this was what they wanted. They simply didn't realise the extent of the plans that were made by the terrorists and didn't realise that the deaths would reach into the thousands and that New York City would have it's largest structures brought down.

I know one thing for sure. 9-11 proved to me that our President and Vice President are more important than any citizen ( to them anyway) and that there will be no place to run or hide and no help from our government when it happens again. Our entire population could be wiped out.....but the President and Vise President will be safe.

__________________
"The ram has touched the wall.....no mercy!"
Mark Antony, (James Purefoy)
HBO's "Rome"

MarkMiller

How do you embed video? The embeding code does nothing when I attempt it?

__________________
"The ram has touched the wall.....no mercy!"
Mark Antony, (James Purefoy)
HBO's "Rome"

MarkMiller

Figured it out.....now I can't find the video....damn it!

__________________
"The ram has touched the wall.....no mercy!"
Mark Antony, (James Purefoy)
HBO's "Rome"

slowhand

I believe pretty much along the lines of what you have said here..However..I dont listen to the truthers because, if your are really looking for the truth, and have a desire for coming across as credible, then they need to call the bluffs of those within the movement who are fabricating these eronious theories based on thin air, as well as the known Anti-Semites, Neo Nazis, and other assorted white trash within the ranks..Truth = Science+Evidence, and when you step outside of those boundaries with assumptions, and weak theories, and/or fabrications, then you enter the land of bullshit, and this is why they are not taken seriously, which is also why Bill Maher made the Paxil comment, and will never be taken seriously by me

I also believe that Bush's grand plan for his Presidency from day one was to invade Iraq..I think that 9/11 was the card that played right into his hand..But..9/11 or no 9/11, he was going into Iraq anyway.I agree with you 100% there..He had Saddam's defiance, and the 1441 Security Council Resolutions to back him up..Saddam had led a 13 year refusal to comply campaign, and all Bush had to do at that point was to force Saddam to shit or git, and ultimately, isnt that exactly what Bush did?..Comply, or be forced to comply with millitary intervention?..He could have easily done the same thing without a 9/11 justification, and Saddam would have gladly accomodated Bush with his defiance, and foot dragging, and sandbagging techniques

There is no doubt in my mind that the Bush Admin knew more about the potential for an attack on 9/11 than they let on..In the aftermath of the attack, they knew too much, too quick..They knew who the 19 hi-jackers were, and posted their pictures on the front page of the newspapers almost immediately..They knew about the pilot schools that they attended..They knew everything there was to know about these guys, which you just know that these guys were being investigated long before 9/11, and they had to know that an attack was imminent..They did admitt that there was some intelliegnce that suggested an attack, but they just neglected to tell us the whole story, and for that they traitors..criminals, for allowing this attack to take place, when they obviously had what they needed to round these idiots up and lock them up and throw the key away

sunflower

In case you missed the point of the post, here it is: as in many (if not most) political movements (which, if you wish to acknowledge it or not, the truth movement is one), there are wacky factions always. The basic message is the one that is generally universal among its members: not that 9/11 was an inside job necessarily, but that evidence and circumstance point to that conclusion, and a closer more clinical look at the events of that day is absolutely necessary and required. Imagine if it had happened and had been disguised well enough to keep the questions down to the barest minimum - we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we? But it's like a guy who pulls off his first bank robbery - everything goes according to plan for the most part, but he gets greedy and goes on robbing banks; after a while, he thinks he can never be caught, he's too smart to get caught, and he goes on and on; eventually one of the robberies results in someone's death - now he's gone too far, but he can't stop.

I see the Bush admin (and moreso the people who actually run it, not Bush) as that bank robber...not content with pushing through their police state agenda on us, they went further and further and further, until they are now completely open and unafraid that we understand where they are going, because they think they're unstoppable and invincible.

9/11 has been the catalyzing event that PNAC described. It has illuminated the real plans of this and past governments, and we are the losers. Not the truthers. Everyone. Exposing these murderers and thieves for who they are is imperative if we are to think we're leaving anything of value for our children and their children.

I saw the Sibel Edmonds thread. There's a reason they have gagged her for so long. Why is she willing now to talk, even at the risk of being jailed for doing so? She knows something very sinister, and it's high time we all found out what it is.

slowhand

And when you refuse to weed out and discredit the whackos, then the movement about has as much credibility as the Bush Admin

Evidence?..What evidence?..Circumstance..maybe..Evidence?..doubtfu l

Circumstances point to the LIHOP theory, but I dont hear the truth movements' willingness to even take it into consideration

Im not pleased with the so-called measures that Bush has implimented to so-called protect us by voilating our constitutional rights, and it doesnt matter what happened on 9/11 or how it happened..We are stuck with it as long as Bush or some other cronie holds the reins

I havent read the Sibel Edmonds thread, and if its source is Prison Planet, or some other questionable source, then I wont be reading it

sunflower

Again, basics. The fringe is the fringe; they won't go away, but they're real convenient when you want to discredit the rest, aren't they?



Lots of evidence - mostly circumstantial (which is very useful in a court of law - convictions are won with circumstantial evidence in courts in this country and around the world every day of the week.

Even LIHOP points to some participation; to work properly, LIHOP would virtually require participation in order for it to succeed.



Bush is meaningless in this mess. 9/11 and it's aftermath hold the key - depends if you want to actually open the door and look outside.



http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5197

slowhand

They discredit the rest because you allow that faction to, and then pat them on the back for their "good posts"..What do you expect?

chrisbb

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. The bamboozle has captured us. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."

Carl Sagan