Capitalism versus Socialism - Page 3

DRS112 · 03-09-2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Have you seen any recent "graduates" of our educational system? No you can't say socialism is bad for everything except .......

and if socialism works in education why can't it be adopted to work in other paradigms?

again...it's not that it works there...because by many standards our education system SUCKS...as has been admitted by virtually everybody...it's that it's been deemed that education would be underproduced so that the demand for it cannot be met. That alot of the population could not afford education...and that an uneducated populace has externalties that add burdens onto society...

Kanadesaga · 03-09-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Some cancer patients are dying because the NHS cannot treat them soon enough, a BBC investigation has revealed.
Although many waiting list targets are being met, the Ten O'Clock News found that a range of patients face long waits for treatment - sometimes with fatal consequences.

BBC Social Affairs Editor Niall Dickson said new equipment was appearing but the NHS had neither machines or the staff to deliver treatment on time.

Sounds more of a failure of bureaucracy planning. Anecdotal eveidence can back any argument. Is it systemic? Do we have figures on how many die here because they can't afford threatment? How many bankruptcies due to medical expenses?

Quote:

BBC News | HEALTH | Patients 'die waiting for treatment'

but seriously...as much as the Canadians here like to tout their system...generic drugs are more expensive there...and if there is an emergency...many come here due to waiting lists...

I know a guy from Toronto area says his longest wait at an ER has been 15 minutes. As I said anecdotal evidence is just that. And then which is worse incompetence or just plain mercenary health care.

DRS112 · 03-09-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Sounds more of a failure of bureaucracy planning. Anecdotal eveidence can back any argument. Is it systemic? Do we have figures on how many die here because they can't afford threatment? How many bankruptcies due to medical expenses?

I know a guy from Toronto area says his longest wait at an ER has been 15 minutes. As I said anecdotal evidence is just that. And then which is worse incompetence or just plain mercenary health care.

It's not anecdotal....you can google any of what I said and find many articles about it...In fairness I tried google waiting in the U.S. to show a comparison....but all I got was about other countries....

The_Heretic · 03-09-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

I never said that one absolute or the other was the only choice except in reference to what I thought the OP was about...but you can't make claims about one healthcare plans superiority without backing them up...just saying so doesn't make it true.

Actually what I siad has lone been proven. The U.S. healthcare system [capitalistic/predatorial] is 37th whlle those at the top of the list are virtually all socialized.

Jonesy · 03-09-2008, 09:34 PM

Humans have been on the brink of extinction for thousands of years, because of our divergence from nature. Society (government), is a product of technology. Weaponry is technology. Religion is technology. We fight these wars, a sure path to extinction, based solely on technology. We now have the weaponry to easily cause our own extinction (yes, we are retarded). Naturally, a new clue arises in the form of a planetary ecological imbalance (a.k.a. global warming).

Want to kill our species? Do things massively unnatural, in very short periods of time.

Kanadesaga · 03-09-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

again...it's not that it works there...because by many standards our education system SUCKS...as has been admitted by virtually everybody...it's that it's been deemed that education would be underproduced so that the demand for it cannot be met. That alot of the population could not afford education...and that an uneducated populace has externalties that add burdens onto society...

Well public education grew out of the need for a well educated populace being necessary for a free and thinking people. We are neither anymore. Half of the eligible population doesn't vote. So why should my taxes go to pay for kids I don't have, to learn nothing ?

DRS112 · 03-09-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

Actually what I siad has lone been proven. The U.S. healthcare system [capitalistic/predatorial] is 37th whlle those at the top of the list are virtually all socialized.

Does it say why? is it nurses to doctors? Is it the longevity? what's the criteria? how does socialization fix it?

Why are other socialized systems ranked lower?

The point is...ranking alone does not jusitify one system or another....hell...that's evident in our education system...we spend a boatload of money on it...by the govt. but we still suck in the rankings there too...

DRS112 · 03-09-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Well public education grew out of the need for a well educated populace being necessary for a free and thinking people. We are neither anymore. Half of the eligible population doesn't vote. So why should my taxes go to pay for kids I don't have, to learn nothing ?

Weird...I actually support public education...

I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak...things can be changed....and it's an overstatement to say they aren't learning anything...

Kanadesaga · 03-09-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

It's not anecdotal....you can google any of what I said and find many articles about it...In fairness I tried google waiting in the U.S. to show a comparison....but all I got was about other countries....

Isn't that interesting. So because, and only because, we have a private healthcare system, a for-profit healthcare system we have zero waiting times at ER's around the country? Funny I remember waiting 7 hours for emergency treatment one time. And if treatment is not immediate but long term are there figures for deaths due to poverty? and if not why not? Who is hiding that number?

The_Heretic · 03-09-2008, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Does it say why? is it nurses to doctors? Is it the longevity? what's the criteria? how does socialization fix it?

Why are other socialized systems ranked lower?

The point is...ranking alone does not jusitify one system or another....

Whether you like it or not it does. See, it's about what works. When there's a for profit motive it's twinned with the denial of service motive. And despite all that private insurance companies waste for more money than government healthcare systems do.

Quote:

hell...that's evident in our education system...we spend a boatload of money on it...by the govt. but we still suck in the rankings there too...

Actually, the reason our educational system sucks has nothing to do with socialism in the slightest. This because in other modern countries and even many third world countries their public education is better than ours. The reason politicians allow our education degrade is because they need us to be stupid enough to vote against our interest and be uninformed enough that their corporate backers can take easier advantage of us.

03-09-2008, 09:34 PM	#25 (permalink)
Jonesy Truth Lion Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,554 Thanks: 10 Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts	Humans have been on the brink of extinction for thousands of years, because of our divergence from nature. Society (government), is a product of technology. Weaponry is technology. Religion is technology. We fight these wars, a sure path to extinction, based solely on technology. We now have the weaponry to easily cause our own extinction (yes, we are retarded). Naturally, a new clue arises in the form of a planetary ecological imbalance (a.k.a. global warming). Want to kill our species? Do things massively unnatural, in very short periods of time.
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