Capitalism versus Socialism - Page 51

OldManOnFire · 04-09-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Not a fan of Says Law I take it?

I should have noted that this was a macro question as it pertains to money...

What's the goal? Full employment or zero inflation?

Says Law that there can be no demand without supply??

In the process of calculating the price of products and services based on supply and demand, there will be no demand without supply.

But philosophically, new products and services are created all the time to fill demand that will evolve with the introduction and availability of goods.

If you build it...they will come...

Malkavian · 04-09-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PursuitOfHappinessParty

I was originally using my stance as a 'what if' scenario. Compromise toward unhealthy lifestyles, combined with Party politics, might make such a scenario necessary for passage.

In reality, the only proper way is to flat fee everything, and treat all people equally under UHC. As the posts progressed, it DID appear I was advocating these sin taxes. I do support them in certain areas, such as cigarettes and sports equipment - both undeniably hazardous and voluntary. But in food, unless you target fast-food, you're talking a rediculous amount of big-brotherism. Targeting fast-food is undesirable to me due to my aversion to allowing the government to 'target' things.

See, i disagree with treating everybody equally because we are not.

But i agree with the rest...

Anyway, what's wrong with sports equipment?

PursuitOfHappinessParty · 04-09-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkavian

See, i disagree with treating everybody equally because we are not.

But i agree with the rest...

Anyway, what's wrong with sports equipment?

Nothing. I'm just anticipating major hair-splittings if we go down the 'exclusionary' path. Once and if we started targeting people for 'unhealthy' habits, sports is bound to come up.

Malkavian · 04-09-2008, 01:38 PM

Ah, lol... like i said before, those super athletes are a tiny minority, hardly the major cost drivers.

PursuitOfHappinessParty · 04-09-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

In terms of disposable income....

and also...here's the thing...with insurance cpmpanies some of the costs of healthcare are recouped through investing the money. With employers doing it some of the costs are absorbed through profits, even if the costs are reflected in the price of the products...it still gives the individual the option to spend or not in many cases....in addition...some of those costs ar transferred overseas when people in foreign markets pay for the products

Okay, thanks for the answer. I see where you're going, I just see it slightly different. As to costs being absorbed thru profits (home and abroad), that's the business model that supports the employee to begin with. As such, the employee gains in wages and with those wages pays the tax (if that's the system in place) for the UHC as a benefit from being employed. Much the same as roads.

Quote:

I don't think I'd call it corporate/small business welfare unless it is a net positive gain for the employer....would you...and...if I had to choose between being taxed at 25% of the rate and it going to corporate welfare to provide the same service as me being taxed 100% for that same service....I choose the former.....

I always call the government giving favorable treatment to a business, individual, or entity as welfare. I'm still not on board with those percentages.....

Quote:

Whens the last time that you saw a government bureaucracy run more efficiently than a business in terms of cutting waste to be more efficient?

Quote:

Also...is it fair to tax a single individual at the same rate for healthcare as a family of five? If I'm 26 years old and single...why should I pay the same as a 50 year old with a wife and 3 kids?

Yet you pay the same for roads as people who drive less, more, less miles, more miles, more drivers, employees driving, bus riders, SUVs, compacts.
You pay property tax (even if you rent, it's in the rent) whether you have children going to the schools.
Taking on social issues that don't necessarilly impact you yourself is part of the human dynamic of living in a community as opposed to hunting/gathering on your own.

Malkavian · 04-09-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

So....does demand create its own supply or does supply create its own demand?

Or neither? And if in this case....then what?

Both, with demand being dominant... I mean, at work, i have cell phone or a high speed computer comm link sitting in a jug that people may buy in 5-10 years or so, and as we develop materials and prototype them, we generate demand for them... But ultimately, we wouldn't be working on this stuff if we didn't expect people wanting to buy fancy cell phones and high speed telecoms. So i'd say demand is 80% of it.

PursuitOfHappinessParty · 04-09-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkavian

Ah, lol... like i said before, those super athletes are a tiny minority, hardly the major cost drivers.

I'm probably just angry because once at the Dentist, I had my appointment (My tooth hurt bad!) moved back when a girl came in that got hit in the mouth with a baseball while pitching. OUCH.

PursuitOfHappinessParty · 04-09-2008, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkavian

Both, with demand being dominant... I mean, at work, i have cell phone or a high speed computer comm link sitting in a jug that people may buy in 5-10 years or so, and as we develop materials and prototype them, we generate demand for them... But ultimately, we wouldn't be working on this stuff if we didn't expect people wanting to buy fancy cell phones and high speed telecoms. So i'd say demand is 80% of it.

Thanks to Edison.

DRS112 · 04-09-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PursuitOfHappinessParty

Yet you pay the same for roads as people who drive less, more, less miles, more miles, more drivers, employees driving, bus riders, SUVs, compacts.
You pay property tax (even if you rent, it's in the rent) whether you have children going to the schools.
Taking on social issues that don't necessarilly impact you yourself is part of the human dynamic of living in a community as opposed to hunting/gathering on your own.

Roads are payed for with gasoline tax....so those that drive more, and use more gas, pay more in taxes....

I can kinda see the school thing...which is why old people are the ones who always vote against mill increases....

but....there is a big difference between property taxes....and asking an individual to pay say $7,000 a year for health insurance or asking one guy to pay $7000 to cover his whole family....

Malkavian · 04-09-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Not a fan of Says Law I take it?

I should have noted that this was a macro question as it pertains to money...

What's the goal? Full employment or zero inflation?

I'd say full employment would benefit more at this point... US wages had stagnated for the past several decades. Full employment would push those up. And resulting inflation would make paying off the debts much easier for the general population. Additionally, it would probably cause a gradual crisis of confidence in USD as a global reserve currency, so US would have an incentive to redesign it's economic structure into a more coherent form. Commodity prices would shoot up though, that would be a major negative.

04-09-2008, 01:38 PM	#504 (permalink)
Malkavian Milked Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Resting in Peace Posts: 4,212 My Mood: Thanks: 195 Thanked 53 Times in 46 Posts	Ah, lol... like i said before, those super athletes are a tiny minority, hardly the major cost drivers. __________________ Woof!
	Top

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode