How to help the environment and get off oil - Page 3

OldManOnFire · 01-29-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Flex

It is time, but unless you have millions or billions of dollars at your disposal and political influence, you won't get very far. These energy companies won't invest into anything that doesn't provide returns like oil does. Until a profitable alternative is found, oil is king, IMO.

First, energy and oil companies are investing in alternative energies. They fully understand that somewhere down the road if they wish to provide energy, it will need to be clean and sustainable energy, and just like the oil-whores of today, all of these companies will want a piece of the emerging industry.

Second, too many people believe switching over from the status-quo to alternative technologies can be done with a snap of the fingers--and this is impossible! Most all of the technologies have been around for decades--this is a fact. So what's holding us back then?? It could be our ignorance about technology? It could be we don't believe there is an oil issue? It costs too much money? We don't care? Or as W.C.Fields once said; why do anything today that cannot be put off until tomorrow??

Third, all of us, from the poor to the rich, can do things today about oil dependence and the environment. We can take mass-transit. We can carpool. We can walk. We can ride bicycles. We can relocate to minimize commute distances to work and stores, etc. We can move the thermostat five degrees lower in the winter and five degrees higher in the summer. We can turn off unnecessary lights. But when most of us won't even do these fundamental and logical steps, how can anyone expect more like hybrid cars, electric cars, solar/wind, etc.??

Fourth, we DO NOT have a government willing to lead the American people down the path of oil independence!! And if we do eventually have this type of government, then I question if we the PEOPLE are willing to follow...

Sean · 01-29-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Well sean is driving that damn electric cart all over the golf course messing up the green areas and tee boxes and increasing global warming by recharging that golf cart. It should run on hemp.

I'm not screwing up any green, the only time I'm on them is when I'm playing. I'm friends with the guys in the Clubhouse and don't cause any harm so fuck off with that shit.

Sean · 01-29-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Cutting between greens and boxes is EVEN WORSE. You are ruining the chipping areas onto the greens. Geez. No wonder my short game suffers so much. Electric cart hacks like you are munching up the areas around the greens.

AND that causes erosion on the tee boxes and makes them slant. Now you have me pushing show right because I am hitting on an upward incline. Walk man. Get some exercises and stop destroying the golf course.

Do you even play? Chipping areas around the box? WTF? That's just one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard.

jdanton · 01-29-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Maybe Eman will take you on as his pupil and in a few hundred or thousand years you will know everything too.

Simply concerned about benthic organisms near the course is all, among other things.

Given your user name, I'd have thought we'd have more positive feedback from you.

I got yanked away for other things as I started this thread, but I have some questions.

We can make hydrogen from water, as I understand. My question would be how clean must the water be to make hydrogen from it that burns clean?

Would demand for enough clean water for this purpose cut into the water supply we drink?

Should the government fund research?

jdanton · 01-29-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

it's pretty simple, actually.

and all it really entails is calling bullshit on the bullshit.
we ALL just have to STOP allowing bullshit to have any "say"!

for example: we must start to completely ignore and blow off the assholes with ties to special interests - like those who are now trying to say wind energy is killing birds (there's a wind farm near me, and that claim's pure bullshit) these people are coal people masquerading as environmentalists! people with ties to special interests should be exposed and their opinions written off for what they REALLY are!

likewise, we need to force the auto makers to mass produce their electric cars - they already know how. we could FORCE them to mass produce these cars by applying HUGE sales tax penalties on any/all vehicles that's not getting a bare minimum of 50 miles to a gallon. the ONLY reason they aren't doing so already is the FACT that auto makers are in bed with the oil companies. this is well documented - and quite frankly - common knowledge.

this relatively recent practice of debating things with bullshit artists is killing our country on MANY levels. people with absurd views, or direct ties to special interests that run contrary to the good of the country are being allowed to weigh in on important issues as if they had legitimate opinions - and therefore, are circumventing common sense and the best interests of the general population.

isn't it time to STOP letting the flat earth society run our world?

I don't entirely agree with this. Ford has no reason NOT to build as high a mileage car as it can make, because they could sell it.

Toyota couldn't build the Prius hybrid fast enough to meet demand.

FACT is that laws of physics trump laws of congress. You can make a toyota Corolla hybrid that might hit 50 mpg, but you won't do as well with their larger vehicles.

Electric vehicles, I think, have many practical uses. Being the family car is not one of them. Drug store delivery vehicles, letter carrier vehicles, meter maid vehicles, and such could all work well as electrics, as they could be plugged in overnight to charge, and only go a few miles each day.

One of the problems here is families need a car that holds the kids, and that means a larger, lower mpg vehicle. It might be wise to help that same family own a second car of a much smaller size that uses far less gas, for those trips where the family isn't coming.

jdanton · 01-29-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K2Flex

It is time, but unless you have millions or billions of dollars at your disposal and political influence, you won't get very far. These energy companies won't invest into anything that doesn't provide returns like oil does. Until a profitable alternative is found, oil is king, IMO.

I'm not sure this is true, either. Whatever alternative fuel cars of the future run on, you will be filling your tank at your local Exxon station.

As long as Exxon makes an amount per gallon similar to what they make pumping gas, why would they care what they are pumping.

For example, if the future rests in hydrogn vehicles, we're not going to let everyone make their own hydrogen, are we?

jdanton · 01-29-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

First, energy and oil companies are investing in alternative energies. They fully understand that somewhere down the road if they wish to provide energy, it will need to be clean and sustainable energy, and just like the oil-whores of today, all of these companies will want a piece of the emerging industry.

Second, too many people believe switching over from the status-quo to alternative technologies can be done with a snap of the fingers--and this is impossible! Most all of the technologies have been around for decades--this is a fact. So what's holding us back then?? It could be our ignorance about technology? It could be we don't believe there is an oil issue? It costs too much money? We don't care? Or as W.C.Fields once said; why do anything today that cannot be put off until tomorrow??

Third, all of us, from the poor to the rich, can do things today about oil dependence and the environment. We can take mass-transit. We can carpool. We can walk. We can ride bicycles. We can relocate to minimize commute distances to work and stores, etc. We can move the thermostat five degrees lower in the winter and five degrees higher in the summer. We can turn off unnecessary lights. But when most of us won't even do these fundamental and logical steps, how can anyone expect more like hybrid cars, electric cars, solar/wind, etc.??

Fourth, we DO NOT have a government willing to lead the American people down the path of oil independence!! And if we do eventually have this type of government, then I question if we the PEOPLE are willing to follow...

This kind of gets back to the government's role of possible funding research. Whatever fuel is found to suit our purpose will HAVE to be made in large quantities, be available to fill your tank with at your local gas station, and will have to sell at a price competitive to gas.

Those, I believe, are the most difficult obstacles.

Richterscale · 01-29-2008, 02:22 PM

Not to mention mass transportation and just plain old WALKING (scary, I know) are key. These two would have the added benefit of helping local businesses vs mega malls.

itsmeeeeeee · 01-29-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

Electric vehicles, I think, have many practical uses. Being the family car is not one of them. Drug store delivery vehicles, letter carrier vehicles, meter maid vehicles, and such could all work well as electrics, as they could be plugged in overnight to charge, and only go a few miles each day.

you mean like the powerful converted electric hybrid saturn suv that gets 150 mpg right now that plugs into a standard outlet, would sticker at $26,000 and was at the detroit car show? um, they're already out there!

and you don't have to build an infrastructure to fuel it.

and the ONLY reason ford couldn't afford to cut it's ties with big oil is big industrial blackmail. big oil isn't ready to give up it's raping of the american consumer yet. there's too much money yet to be made.

and no, they (oil and coal) won't seriously r&d alternative energy until they've extracted every drop of blood they can get out of oil and coal first... because it's not in their best interests to develop clean, less expensive energy, and they don't give a shit about ANYTHING, the economy, security, the environment - NOTHING - but their own profit.

anybody who believes they are seriously pursuing clean economical alternative energy is A) drinking the corporate koolaid, or B) a gullible nincompoop.

Richterscale · 01-29-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee

anybody who believes they are seriously pursuing clean economical alternative energy is A) drinking the corporate koolaid, or B) a gullible nincompoop.

I'll take A)... at least I get koolaid

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