Obama's Exelon ties merit close look - Page 2

Teri B. · 02-11-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

I understand that, but Hillary has been around power a lot longer than Obama, she is bound to have more dealings than him. She is bound to owe more favors than him. That is just the nature of the beast.

So? That means he's more moral that she is? Cause he's only developed relationships with a few scumbags?

Teri B. · 02-11-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

MAKING OF A CANDIDATE
Obama knows his way around a ballot
Some say his ability to play political hardball goes back to his first campaign
By David Jackson and Ray Long

Tribune staff reporters

6:48 PM CDT, April 3, 2007

The day after New Year's 1996, operatives for Barack Obama filed into a barren hearing room of the Chicago Board of Election Commissioners.

There they began the tedious process of challenging hundreds of signatures on the nominating petitions of state Sen. Alice Palmer, the longtime progressive activist from the city's South Side. And they kept challenging petitions until every one of Obama's four Democratic primary rivals was forced off the ballot.

Fresh from his work as a civil rights lawyer and head of a voter registration project that expanded access to the ballot box, Obama launched his first campaign for the Illinois Senate saying he wanted to empower disenfranchised citizens.

But in that initial bid for political office, Obama quickly mastered the bare-knuckle arts of Chicago electoral politics. His overwhelming legal onslaught signaled his impatience to gain office, even if that meant elbowing aside an elder stateswoman like Palmer.

A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it.

One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama's petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights.

"Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?" Askia said. "He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?"

In a recent interview, Obama granted that "there's a legitimate argument to be made that you shouldn't create barriers to people getting on the ballot."

But the unsparing legal tactics were justified, he said, by obvious flaws in his opponents' signature sheets. "To my mind, we were just abiding by the rules that had been set up," Obama recalled.

"I gave some thought to … should people be on the ballot even if they didn't meet the requirements," he said. "My conclusion was that if you couldn't run a successful petition drive, then that raised questions in terms of how effective a representative you were going to be."

Asked whether the district's primary voters were well-served by having only one candidate, Obama smiled and said: "I think they ended up with a very good state senator."

Obama behind challenges
America has been defined in part by civil rights and good government battles fought out in Chicago's 13th District, which in 1996 spanned Hyde Park mansions, South Shore bungalows and poverty-bitten precincts of Englewood.

It was in this part of the city that an eager reform Democrat by the name of Abner Mikva first entered elected office in the 1950s. And here a young, brash minister named Jesse Jackson ran Operation Breadbasket, leading marchers who sought to pressure grocery chains to hire minorities.

Palmer served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews.

But when Palmer got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat.

Obama not only refused to step aside, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw.

"I liked Alice Palmer a lot. I thought she was a good public servant," Obama said. "It was very awkward. That part of it I wish had played out entirely differently."

His choice divided veteran Chicago political activists.

"There was friction about the decision he made," said City Colleges of Chicago professor emeritus Timuel Black, who tried to negotiate with Obama on Palmer's behalf. "There were deep disagreements."

Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. Palmer's elimination marked the first of several fortuitous political moments in Obama's electoral success: He won the 2004 primary and general elections for U.S. Senate after tough challengers imploded when their messy divorce files were unsealed.

Obama contended that in the case of the 1996 race, in which he routed token opposition in the general election, he was ready to compete in the primary if necessary.

"We actually ran a terrific campaign up until the point we knew that we weren't going to have to appear on the ballot with anybody," Obama said. "I mean, we had prepared for it. We had raised money. We had tons of volunteers. There was enormous enthusiasm."

And he defended his use of ballot maneuvers: "If you can win, you should win and get to work doing the people's business."

At the time, though, Obama seemed less at ease with the decision, according to aides. They said the first-time candidate initially expressed reservations about using challenges to eliminate all his fellow Democrats.

"He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions."

In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest.

While Obama didn't attend the hearings, "he wanted us to call him every night and let him know what we were doing," Davis said, noting that Palmer and the others seemed unprepared for the challenges.

But Obama didn't gloat over the victories. "I don't think he thought it was, you know, sporting," said Will Burns, a 1996 Obama campaign volunteer who assisted with the petition challenges. "He wasn't very proud of it."

Endorsement or informal nod?
By the summer of 1995, Obama, 34, had completed his globe-trotting education and settled deep into Chicago's South Side.

He had gone to Harvard Law School with private ambitions of someday following Harold Washington as mayor of Chicago. At Harvard, where Obama was celebrated as the first black president of the Law Review, classmate Gina Torielli remembers him "saying that governor of Illinois would be his dream job."

Back in Chicago after graduation, Obama won respect for running Project Vote, which registered tens of thousands of black Chicagoans. "It's a power thing," the volunteers' T-shirts said.

Community organizers packed his wedding to Michelle Robinson, a South Shore resident and fellow Harvard Law graduate. The newlyweds bought a Hyde Park condo.

His memoir, "Dreams from My Father," was published that summer to warm reviews. He was working at a small but influential legal firm, teaching constitutional law as a University of Chicago adjunct professor and sitting on the boards of charities.

At the same time, the South Side's political map was thrown up for grabs when then-U.S. Rep. Mel Reynolds was convicted of sex crimes and a special election was called to fill his congressional seat.

Palmer joined the race and, according to multiple accounts, introduced Obama as the successor for her Illinois Senate seat.

"She said, 'I found this wonderful person, this fine young man, so we needn't worry that we'd have a good state senator,' " said former 5th Ward Democratic committeeman Alan Dobry, who volunteered to help both Palmer and Obama that year.

In recent interviews, Obama and Palmer agreed that he asked her whether she wanted to keep her options open and file to run for her state Senate seat as a fallback in case her congressional bid failed.

Obama says he told her: "We haven't started the campaign yet."

"I hadn't publicly announced," he said. "But what I said was that once I announce, and I have started to raise money, and gather supporters, hire staff and opened up an office, signed a lease, then it's going to be very difficult for me to step down. And she gave me repeated assurances that she was in [the congressional race] to stay."

Obama "did say that to me," Palmer says now. "And I certainly did say that I wasn't going to run. There's no question about that."

But beyond that, the private discussions they held in 1995 are shrouded today in disputed and hazy memories.

Obama said Palmer gave him her formal endorsement. "I'm absolutely certain she … publicly spoke and sort of designated me," he recalled.

Palmer disputes that. "I don't know that I like the word 'endorsement,' " she said. "An endorsement to me, having been in legislative politics … that's a very formal kind of thing. I don't think that describes this. An 'informal nod' is how to characterize it."

In July 1995, Obama announced he was planning to run for Palmer's seat. He filed papers creating his fundraising committee a month later and officially announced his candidacy in September.

He emerged that winter as a gifted campaigner who after finishing hectic workdays would layer on thermal underwear to knock on South Side doors.

In impromptu street-corner conversations and media interviews, he disparaged local pols for putting self-preservation ahead of public service. At the last house on a dark block, "he would start a discussion that should have taken five minutes and pretty soon someone was cooking him dinner," said paid campaign consultant Carol Anne Harwell.

Then Palmer's congressional bid collapsed. On Nov. 28, 1995, she placed a distant third behind political powerhouses Jesse Jackson Jr., who holds that congressional seat today, and current state Senate President Emil Jones Jr.

Palmer didn't fade quietly away. Citing an "outpouring" of support, she upended the political landscape by switching gears and deciding to run in the March 1996 primary for her state Senate seat.

But she had two big problems. To get on the ballot, Palmer needed to file nominating petitions signed by at least 757 district voters—and the Dec. 18 deadline was just days away.

And then there was Obama, the bright up-and-comer she had all but anointed.

Obama's aides said he seemed anguished over the prospect of defying Palmer. "I really saw turmoil in his face," Harwell said.

Obama sought advice from political veterans such as 4th Ward Ald. Toni Preckwinkle and then-15th Ward Ald. Virgil Jones, who say they urged him to hold his course.

"I thought the world of Alice Palmer," said state Rep. Barbara Flynn Currie (D-Chicago), now the House majority leader. But "at that point she had pulled her own plug."

According to Palmer, it was without her knowledge that her supporters initiated discussions to persuade Obama to step aside. They invited him to the home of state Rep. Lovana "Lou" Jones, now deceased. Obama arrived alone.

"It was a brief meeting," said Black, a Palmer friend who had advised Obama when he was a young community organizer in the mid-1980s.

Obama didn't try to justify his decision to reject Palmer's plea, Black said.

"He did not put it in inflammatory terms, he just did not back away. It was not arguments, it was stubbornness," Black said. "Barack had by then gone ahead in putting together his own campaign, and he just didn't want to stop."

'If you can get 'em, get 'em'
Just in time for the Dec. 18, 1995, filing deadline, Palmer submitted 1,580 signatures—about twice the minimum required. That day, Obama lashed out at her, telling the Tribune she had pressured him to withdraw.

"I am disappointed that she's decided to go back on her word to me," he said.

Obama campaign aides also responded that day—but quietly, and out of the limelight.

Davis and Dobry marshaled volunteers and began poring through the nominating petitions of Palmer and the three lesser-known Democrats, according to interviews.

"We looked at those petitions and found that none of them met the requirements of the law," Dobry said. "Alice's people, they'd done it in a great hurry. Almost all her petitions were signed a day or so before the deadline."

According to Davis, Palmer "had kids gathering the names. I remember two of her circulators, Pookie and Squirt."

Davis and others urged Obama to file legal challenges.

Such tactics are legal and frequently used in Chicago. Ballot challenges eliminated 67 of the 245 declared aldermanic candidates in Chicago before this past February's elections, an election board spokesman said.

Davis recalled telling Obama: "If you can get 'em, get 'em. Why give 'em a break?

"I said, 'Barack, I'm going to knock them all off.'

"He said, 'What do you need?'

"I said, 'I need an attorney.'

"He said, 'Who is the best?'

"I said, 'Tom Johnson.' "

Obama already knew civil rights attorney and fellow Harvard Law graduate Thomas Johnson, who had waged election cases for the late Mayor Washington and had offered Obama informal legal advice since the days of Project Vote.

With Johnson's legal help, Obama's team was confident. They piled binders of polling sheets in the election board office on the second floor of City Hall, and on Jan. 2, 1996, began the days-long hearings that would eliminate the other Democrats.

Little-known candidate Marc Ewell filed 1,286 names, but Obama's objections left him 86 short of the minimum, and election officials struck him from the ballot, records show. Ewell filed a federal lawsuit contesting the board's decision, but Johnson intervened on Obama's behalf and prevailed when Ewell's case was dismissed days later.

Ewell could not be reached for comment, but the federal judge's decision showed how he was tripped up by complexities in the election procedures.

City authorities had just completed a massive, routine purge of unqualified names that eliminated 15,871 people from the 13th District rolls, court records show.

Ewell and other Obama rivals had relied on early 1995 polling sheets to verify the signatures of registered voters—but Obama's challenges were decided at least in part using the most recent, accurate list, records show.

Askia filed 1,899 signatures, but the Obama team sustained objections to 1,211, leaving him 69 short, records show.

Leafing through scrapbooks in his South Shore apartment, Askia, a perennially unsuccessful candidate, acknowledges that he paid Democratic Party precinct workers $5 a sheet for some of the petitions, and now suspects they used a classic Chicago ruse of passing the papers among themselves to forge the signatures. "They round-tabled me," Askia said.

Palmer to this day does not concede the flaws that Obama's team found in her signatures. She maintains that she could have overcome the Obama team's objections and stayed on the ballot if she had more time and resources.

It was wrenching to withdraw, she said. "But sit for a moment, catch your breath, get up and keep going. I'm a very practical person. Politics is not the only vehicle for accomplishing things." She became a special assistant to the president of the University of Illinois and is now retired.

Obama said he has not been in touch with Palmer since 1996. "No, not really, no," he said.

Though she hasn't determined whom to support in the presidential race, Palmer, 67, said her dispute with Obama doesn't affect her assessment of his fitness to hold office.

Saying that jobless high school dropouts "are sitting on the steps next to my house," Palmer added: "There is a savage economy going on out here, and we've got collateral damage. I am looking closely to see who has the courage, the smarts."

Another link I got from Edwards bloggers.

ThetaBurst · 02-11-2008, 10:08 AM

The Weekend in Review
by ThetaBurst News

Louisiana

Washington

Nebraska

Maine

jdanton · 02-11-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Unfortunately, if we are to disqualify every politician with corporate ties, there will be no one serving in Congress today, or ever. That is an unfortunate reality in today's world. I wish there was no corporate influence, I would fight hard to eradicate it, but to expect it from a candidate, you have to run ordinary citizens , not lawyers, not executives, and not career politicians.

You'll get no argument out me on this.

However, if this was part of Clinton's history, we'd all hear about it on the "news" every day for months.

I hope that the media takes a closer look at Obama BEFORE he wins the nomination. That would only be fair, would it not?

Teri B. · 02-11-2008, 10:46 AM

I tell ya what, I sure like his mom. She reminds me of me.

Obama's mom: Not just a girl from Kansas -- chicagotribune.com

______________________________
Those folks on the Edwards blog have looked at both of the candidates a lot thoroughly than I've seen anyone do thus far. Here's another link I found there.

Candidates' war chest management may offer clues
THE NEW YORK TIMES
April 17, 2007

WASHINGTON - The American public has given about $160 million to the 2008 presidential candidates so far this year, more than four times the total contributed to campaigns in the same period four years ago.

Much of the money went into the pockets of the political class: media, fundraising and political consultants. But each campaign doled out its contributions differently, often in unexpected ways that may provide some insights into the candidates.

Mitt Romney, the Republican who is by far the richest candidate in either party, was stingiest with his salaries for staff members, often had them fly on discount airlines and put up aides in accommodations as humble as a Super 8 in Parsippany, N.J.

Sen. John McCain, the Vietnam war hero whose Republican primary campaign spent the highest percentage of income during the quarter, paid nearly $11,000 for photography and $1,671 for flowers.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, who irked donors during her last Senate campaign by running up heavy bills for such amenities, spent just $205 for photos and $89 for flowers, according to the campaign's filings.

Sen. Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat, has told some donors that their support enables him to run a new kind of campaign by refusing fundraising help from federal lobbyists, but a list of his top fundraisers released over the weekend shows his campaign has defined the term in a way that allows him to accept contributions from people who were federal lobbyists at the start of his campaign.

One of the best-known Democratic donors on his list of 130 top fundraisers, Alan Solomont, was registered as a federal lobbyist as recently as the last filing period for such registrations, at the end of 2006.

Solomont, who helped raise more than $35 million for Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign in 2004, founded a nursing home and assisted-living company. During the administration of Bill Clinton, some Republicans claimed that he had used his clout as a fundraiser to argue against tougher regulations of nursing homes.

Last year, he reported more than $90,000 in income from lobbying the federal government about Medicare and Medicaid.

In an interview, Solomont said he had withdrawn his lobbyist registration as soon as he signed on as a fundraiser for Obama.

"When I joined the campaign, I ended that," he said.

Bill Burton, a spokesman for Obama, said accepting help from a recently former lobbyist did not breach the campaign's policy.

"The point of this ban of federal lobbyists' donations," Burton said, "is that we don't want the fundraising help of someone who is currently lobbying the federal government."

The Obama campaign already has acknowledged that its lobbyist ban is an imperfect, symbolic gesture. Like those of Obama's rivals, the campaign has sought financial support from an array of other influence-seekers, including lobbyists who work at the state level, federal public affairs advocates who are not registered as lobbyists, and the chief executives of companies with strong interest in federal policy and legislation.

Obama's supporters note that his principal rival, Clinton, has enlisted the support of several registered lobbyists among her "Hillraisers," as she calls her top donors.

McCain's campaign, which trailed its rivals in fundraising (with about $15 million), but outpaced them in spending (about $11 million), had the highest-paid staff of any campaign in either party.

Nine of the roughly 150 people listed on his payroll earned more than $25,000 in the first quarter, including the political strategist Michael Dennehy, whose $51,925 earnings made him the highest-paid staff member listed on any campaign, and Terry Nelson, who made $36,173.

Rudolph Giuliani, the Republican former mayor of New York, paid seven staffers more than $25,000, led by his campaign manager, Mike DuHaime, who earned $44,375.

Clinton paid three staff members more than $25,000, and Obama paid only one that much. None of Romney's roughly 150 staff members made that much.

Kanadesaga · 02-11-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teri B.

So? That means he's more moral that she is? Cause he's only developed relationships with a few scumbags?

Yes. We are always choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to politicians, whether you want to look at it that way or not. Find me a candidate who isn't connected in some way or another to corporate interests and I'll support them. but until and IF you ever find such a person, and since my first choice has dropped out, I have to go with what I think is the best candidate. and that means less corrupted Obama. I don't think you're evil, or foolish, or naive to support Hillary. IN fact, I look at it as a win/win no matter which wins the White House. But I would really hate to see in the Presidential rolls, Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.

RK77 · 02-11-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

You'll get no argument out me on this.

However, if this was part of Clinton's history, we'd all hear about it on the "news" every day for months.

I hope that the media takes a closer look at Obama BEFORE he wins the nomination. That would only be fair, would it not?

Hear about what? That is where your problem lies.

Obama knows some powerful people with Excelon. There is NOTHING in his voting record or anything else in the entire article that suggests that his close friendships have in anyway compromised his decision making.

I am surprised this even made the news. WHAT is the story---that he knows the people. They apparently found nothing negative beyond that AND although his close friend, Jones, seems to have been compromised---he is on record as having gone up against him.

Do you think Hillary could weather the guilt by association routine?

Frankly, if at this point this is the best they can do, Obama is looking pretty good!

You keep whining that the media is not taking a close look at Obama---has it occured to you that they are but they are not coming up with much?

itsmeeeeeee · 02-11-2008, 11:55 AM

these articles about electricity and nuclear waste spills are all very heavy on innuendo, while at the same time pointing out that obama's consumer protection intentions were, in fact, pretty damn honorable. using almost NOTHING BUT QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLES THEMSELVES:

"Consumer groups say he had a great record of backing the little guy against utilities when he was in the Illinois Legislature. Obama's spokespeople talk a good game about what he would do in the White House."

another example: the first article clearly states that according to the head of the illinois citizen utility board (a consumer protection agency) "He was one of our strongest allies in Springfield," Kolata says. "I can't remember a time when he was not on our side."

Obama once crossed his mentor, Jones, to oppose a bill increasing what incumbent phone companies could charge competitors leasing their lines, Kolata said. Phone outfits lobbied heavily for the measure, and "almost all Senate Democrats were convinced or forced to vote for it," he said. "State Sen. Obama sided with the consumer on that."

from the same article: "As a new member of the Illinois Senate in 1997, Obama voted for an electricity-deregulation bill that his staff says was supported by consumer groups and was far less than what power providers wanted."

...Obama thinks deregulation has gone too far and Washington has taken its eye off the ball.

"Obama believes that, due to a lack of oversight by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, consumers have unrightfully been forced to deal with high spikes in electricity prices," says spokesman Ben LaBolt. He also "supports stepping up regulation of utility companies," as well as increasing home-heating assistance with a windfall-profit tax on oil companies, LaBolt said.

from the second article - also VERY heavy on innuendo:

"When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.

Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks."

"he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it," and goes on to say that in attempts to get the bill to pass he was forced to compromise, but that the bill was killed...

(i guess making an effort to at least make SOME progress, and get SOME improvements is a bad thing? and the fact that it still didn't make it through is all his fault!)

Mr. Obama “never discussed this issue or this bill” with Mr. Axelrod. The campaign acknowledged that Exelon executives had met with Mr. Obama’s staff about the bill, as had concerned residents, environmentalists and regulators. It said the revisions resulted not from any influence by Exelon, but as a necessary response to a legislative roadblock put up by Republicans, who controlled the Senate at the time.

“If Senator Obama had listened to industry demands, he wouldn’t have repeatedly criticized Exelon in the press, introduced the bill and then fought for months to get action on it,” the campaign said. “Since he has over a decade of legislative experience, Senator Obama knows that it’s very difficult to pass a perfect bill.”

Asked why Mr. Obama had cited it as an accomplishment while campaigning for president, the campaign noted that after the senator introduced his bill, nuclear plants started making such reports on a voluntary basis.

Nuclear safety advocates are divided on whether Mr. Obama’s efforts yielded any lasting benefits. David A. Lochbaum of the Union of Concerned Scientists agreed that “it took the introduction of the bill in the first place to get a reaction from the industry.”

Others say that turning the whole matter over to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, as Mr. Obama’s revised bill would have done, played into the hands of the nuclear power industry, which they say has little to fear from the regulators. Mr. Obama seemed to share those concerns when he told a New Hampshire newspaper last year that the commission “is a moribund agency that needs to be revamped and has become a captive of the industry it regulates.”

On March 1, Mr. Obama introduced a bill known as the Nuclear Release Notice Act of 2006. It stated flatly that nuclear plants “shall immediately” notify federal, state and local officials of any accidental release of radioactive material that exceeded “allowable limits for normal operation.”

(does this sound like he's given up on the issue? like he's not trying? or remotely like he's an industry whore? damn him!)

the article goes on to say:

To flag systematic problems, it would also have required reporting of repeated accidental leaks that fell below those limits. Illinois’ senior senator, Richard J. Durbin, a fellow Democrat, was a co-sponsor, and three other senators, including Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, later signed on. But Mr. Obama remained its primary champion.

In public statements, Mr. Obama dismissed the nuclear lobby’s arguments that the tritium leaks posed no health threat.

“This legislation is not about whether tritium is safe, or at what concentration or level it poses a threat,” he said. “This legislation is about ensuring that nearby residents know whether they may have been exposed to any level of radiation generated at a nuclear power plant as a result of an unplanned, accidental or unintentional incident.”

Almost immediately, the nuclear power industry and federal regulators raised objections to the bill."

and as far as the third article?

well, all i can say is it sure sounds like a butt lot of sour grapes to me! a few people trying to ram candidacy petitions through with enough bad signatures on them to disqualify them, and woman who shot herself in the foot with her own indecision, etc.? i'm sure you could dig up a lot of these kinds of stories on anyone.

and in conclusion - to put a fine point on all this - all the articles reek of the kind of smear politics that have been going on which so many of us want get beyond.

RK77 · 02-11-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teri B.

So? That means he's more moral that she is? Cause he's only developed relationships with a few scumbags?

Teri--

Why do the Hillary people---which you and I are not---keep trying to have it both ways?

The argument is one moment that Obama does not know enough about the ways of washington.

Hillary has bragged about her familiarities and battles with scumbags both here and abroad.

Then, when they find that he KNOWS the scumbags
that is a problem too?

When the issues regarding Hillary and Hsu (or whatever his name is) the Hillary folks cried out "no wrong doing by Hillary" and condemned everyone for considering that issue--slapping hands for the naught 'guilt by association'

I don't recall a discussion here regarding Edwards illegal contributions from Geoffery Fieger, but it certainly played in the papers here in michigan enough---once again with Edwards defenders (myself included) yelled to the rafters about Edwards NOT having knowledge of the illegalities AND the problems/unfairness with guilt by association.

So which way EXACTLY are people going to go with this??

Are you guilty because you know scumbags OR are we going to assume that politicians know many, many scumbags and judge them ONLY by whether they somehow were negatively influenced by them?

As for your article about the 1996 race---is anyone here willing to argue that candidates should be allowed to register with bogus petitions? Is asking that the rule of law be upheld a "bad" thing if someone you don't like does it?

You have posted things that show no substantial problems with Obama or his dealings as far as I can see---if you see it otherwise please point it out to me.

JD keeps yelling about no one taking a look at Obama--I think your articles are evidence to the contrary!

Noob920 · 02-11-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Unfortunately, if we are to disqualify every politician with corporate ties, there will be no one serving in Congress today, or ever. That is an unfortunate reality in today's world. I wish there was no corporate influence, I would fight hard to eradicate it, but to expect it from a candidate, you have to run ordinary citizens , not lawyers, not executives, and not career politicians.

THIS from the guy who whines about Dick Cheney and Halliburton...

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