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Old 02-11-2008, 12:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee View Post
......
well, all i can say is it sure sounds like a butt lot of sour grapes to me! a few people trying to ram candidacy petitions through with enough bad signatures on them to disqualify them, and woman who shot herself in the foot with her own indecision, etc.? i'm sure you could dig up a lot of these kinds of stories on anyone.

and in conclusion - to put a fine point on all this - all the articles reek of the kind of smear politics that have been going on which so many of us want get beyond.



I totally agree! These are non stories!! They are designed to smear.

Just as this is designed to smear Hillary.

Hillary still in bed with '96 scandal
By Jerry Seper
February 8, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nearly one in five "HillRaisers," the elite big-money fundraisers for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign, have ties to the 1990s fundraising scandal that tarnished her husband's presidency by offering Democratic donors sleepovers in the Lincoln Bedroom and other perks inside the White House.

Forty-nine of the Clintons' Lincoln Bedroom guests are among the 250 HillRaisers listed on Mrs. Clinton's campaign Web page, who have pledged to gather, or "bundle," at least $100,000 in donations. Some have promised to raise $1 million or more for the 2008 campaign, the most costly in U.S. history.

Some of the HillRaisers are longtime friends who have given millions to the Clintons over the years, including Washington socialite Beth Dozoretz, who played a key role in the controversial, last-minute 2000 pardon of fugitive financier Marc Rich.

A Lincoln Bedroom visitor, Mrs. Dozoretz, raised $2 million for Mr. Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign, $1 million for the Clinton presidential library and hosted a "rally-around-the-president party" that raised $1 million for Mr. Clinton's legal defense in the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

Mrs. Dozoretz dismissed concerns about the overnight visits — raised by Mrs. Clinton's Democratic primary rivals, Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, and former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina — saying the Clintons had simply opened up the White House to friends.

"It is an experience that can be extraordinary, and Bill and Hillary Clinton sought to share it with a great number of people," she told The Washington Times. "They believed the White House was the people's house, and they shared it with as many people and in as many ways as possible.

"Having friends stay at the White House was in no way a quid pro quo for those who had contributed. No way," she said.

So far in the 2008 campaign, Mrs. Dozoretz has given $20,000 to the Democratic National Committee (DNC), $2,300 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, $12,650 to other Democrats and $4,200 to Mrs. Clinton, according to Federal Election Commission records.

Clinton spokesman Phil Singer did not answer questions e-mailed to the campaign this week about the overnight visits and the HillRaisers. Instead, he responded with an e-mail saying, "The only commitment Hillary Clinton has made is to be the best president she can be for the American people."

Mrs. Clinton, who has raised more than $118 million so far for her 2008 race, has acknowledged that campaign donors were invited to spend the night in the second-floor Lincoln Bedroom but denied that the visits were in exchange for campaign donations.

"There's certainly no basis for believing that they are anything other than what they are, which is friends and supporters," she told reporters in 1996. "There just really isn't any reason for anybody to raise any questions about it. The Lincoln Bedroom was never sold."

Broken system

According to a study by the Committee for Responsive Politics (CRP), a bipartisan watchdog group, 15 of the Lincoln Bedroom guests in 1996 who are now HillRaisers also contributed $130,000 to Mrs. Clinton's 2000 Senate race. Those same high rollers forked over $1.4 million to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and to other Democratic candidates.

The donations flowed despite complaints that the Lincoln Bedroom mattress was lumpy.

Collectively, according to the records, the Lincoln Bedroom guests, which totaled 938 including spouses and children, contributed $10.2 million to Democrats, including Mr. Clinton, an average of $10,847 each.

Mary Boyle, spokeswoman at Common Cause, a Washington-based campaign-finance watchdog group, said the influence of wealthy special interests in the funding of campaigns has eroded public trust in the nation's political system and discouraged political participation.

"Sure, we're always concerned about large donations in presidential races, whether for Hillary Clinton or anyone else," she said. "Bundlers are the power brokers of this presidential campaign.

"The bottom line is our campaign-finance system is badly broken and must be fixed," she said. "We need to restore the presidential public-finance system so our presidential races are not so much about who can raise the most money but who has the best ideas, policies, most support among voters."

'Caricature of itself'

According to White House records and documents collected during separate Senate and House inquiries, the big donors in the 1996 re-election campaign not only were given overnight accommodations, but they were also ushered into the Oval Office for coffees, lunches and other meetings with Mr. and Mrs. Clinton, took rides on Air Force One, received invitations for golf with the president, got Cabinet members for fundraisers, and were put in touch with top policy-makers throughout the Clinton high command.

Republicans first raised questions about the propriety of the coffees and sleepovers, but so did the Justice Department's campaign-finance task force.

Its hand-picked chief, federal prosecutor Charles G. LaBella, recommended in July 1998 after a two-year investigation that Attorney General Janet Reno, a Clinton appointee, seek an independent counsel to probe accusations of White House fundraising abuses.

In a 94-page report, Mr. LaBella said the "intentional conduct and the willful ignorance uncovered by our investigations ... resulted in a situation where abuse was rampant, and indeed the norm."

He said White House officials, including the president and the first lady, had a "desperate need to raise enormous sums of money" to offset losses to Republicans in 1994 and relied on the "calculated use of access" to the Clintons "as leverage to extract contributions."

"At some point, the campaign was so corrupted by bloated fundraising and questionable contributions that the system became a caricature of itself," Mr. LaBella said.

A November 1997 memo by FBI Director Louis J. Freeh said a "core group" of White House and Democratic National Committee officials were involved in "an all-out effort" to raise campaign cash — which led, in part, to the White House coffees and the overnight stays. In the 22-page memo, he said it was "difficult to imagine a more compelling situation for appointing an independent counsel."

Miss Reno rejected the recommendations.

Mr. LaBella, now in private practice in San Diego, said this week that he could not comment on the Clinton presidential campaign but added that "the report speaks for itself."

Big bundles

Mrs. Clinton's HillRaisers are part of a political landscape used by many politicians to bypass federal laws that cap, or limit, contributions. By bundling donations, a single fundraiser can gather contributions from employees, clients, acquaintances and special-interest groups to effectively circumvent federal limits and restrictions.

While the HillRaisers are committed to raising $100,000 each, many have been encouraged by the Clinton campaign to gather as much as $1 million apiece.

Several of them represent large corporations, many of whom do business with the government. Others have been identified as U.S. lobbyists working for foreign governments, including Matthew Bernstein, who represents Dubai and Turkey; John Merrigan, Dubai, Turkey and Ethiopia; Thomas Siebert, the Kurdistan Regional Government; Timothy Chorba, China; Gordon Giffin, Canada; and former Sen. Robert Torricelli, Taiwan.

Mr. Torricelli of New Jersey served a single term in the Senate after 14 years in the House but decided not to seek re-election after being implicated in a bribery and campaign finance scandal involving David Chang, a Korean businessman who was imprisoned.

Other HillRaisers and Lincoln Bedroom guests were William Brandt Jr., a Chicago bankruptcy lawyer and Democratic fundraiser who was investigated and later cleared in a $10,000 per-couple fundraiser he held for Mr. Clinton's 1996 re-election; and Michael Turpen, former attorney general in Oklahoma investigated but not charged in 1998 in his solicitation from an Indian tribe of a $100,000 donation to the DNC in exchange for coffee with Mr. Clinton at the White House.

At least 16 HillRaisers have given $120,000 to Mrs. Clinton's political action committee, HILLPAC.

The sleepovers began as part of a re-election strategy by White House Deputy Chief of Staff Harold Ickes, who sought to raise $100 million using coffees, overnight stays and other White House perks. The plan was personally approved by Mr. Clinton, who said in a January 1995 handwritten note: "Ready to start overnights right away."

The White House coffees became so frequent during the Clinton administration that in a Jan. 19, 1996, memo, Evelyn Lieberman, White House deputy chief of staff, notified staff members who routinely briefed the president that they should be "flexible during this period and accept that their briefings may be considerably truncated or eliminated."

Mrs. Lieberman now serves as chief operating officer of Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign.

In his report, Mr. LaBella did not accuse the president, first lady or Mr. Ickes — who served as Mrs. Clinton's top campaign adviser in her 2000 New York senatorial race — of any criminal acts, but cited a "pattern of conduct worthy of investigation" by an independent counsel.

The report was not made public by the Clinton White House for more than two years, but was released in June 2000 by the House Government Reform Committee.

Former HillRaiser Norman Hsu was sentenced in January to three years in prison in a $60 million fraud. He had raised $850,000 for Mrs. Clinton's 2008 campaign, which has since been returned. Howard Wolfson, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, said at the time that the campaign returned the money "out of an abundance of caution."

WHITE HOUSE SLEEPOVERS

Nearly one in five big-money contributors to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's 2008 presidential campaign, known as "HillRaisers," are the same donors who surfaced in a 1996 White House scandal involving sleepovers in the Lincoln Bedroom and other perks to help re-elect President Clinton. The following are the names of donors who got to spend a night in the Lincoln Bedroom.

Ambassador Elizabeth Bagley
Leonard Barrack
William Brandt
Ron Burkle
John Catsimatidis
Ellen Chesler
Betsy Cohn
Barbaralee Diamonstein
Beth Dozoretz
Mike Driver
Voda "Betsy" Ebeling
Debra Farar
Sim Farar
Geraldine Ferraro
Michael Goldberg
Stephen L. Green
Brian Greenspun
Steven Grossman
Fred P. Hochberg
Kaki Hockersmith
Jill Iscol
John "Duke" Kinney
Christopher Korge
Cynthia Leesfield
Ira Leesfield
Thomas Leonard
Philip Levine
Matthew Mallow
Gary Mauro
Kevin O'Keefe
Alan J. Patricof
Lisa Perry
Richard Perry
Steven Rattner
Gov. Edward G. Rendell
Cheryl Saban
Haim Saban
Elaine Schuster
Gerry Schuster
Stanley S. Shuman
Roy Spence
Steven Spielberg
Ambassador Carl Spielvogel
Michael Turpen
Susan Turpen
Mark Weiner
Carol Shields Westbrook
Hugh Westbrook
Maureen White
Source: HillaryClinton.com


Hillary has yet to explain where her $5 Million dollar loan to her campaign came from.

Should that be a pertinent issue to be cleared up before a nominee is selected?

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Old 02-11-2008, 12:40 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kanadesaga View Post
Yes. We are always choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to politicians, whether you want to look at it that way or not. Find me a candidate who isn't connected in some way or another to corporate interests and I'll support them. but until and IF you ever find such a person, and since my first choice has dropped out, I have to go with what I think is the best candidate. and that means less corrupted Obama. I don't think you're evil, or foolish, or naive to support Hillary. IN fact, I look at it as a win/win no matter which wins the White House. But I would really hate to see in the Presidential rolls, Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.
Find me a vote either of them has cast in the last ten years that supports the interests of the corporations over the American people.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:47 PM   #23 (permalink)
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THIS from the guy who whines about Dick Cheney and Halliburton...
I don't whine Spanky, I BITCH about thedick and halliburton. as often as politicians are in lobbyists pockets, I don't see any of them getting no-bid contracts like HAL: Cheney is the most evil human being on the planet. Period, bar none! If you had half a brain you could see it, as it is I'm surprised you spelled it correctly.
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:47 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Hear about what? That is where your problem lies.

Obama knows some powerful people with Excelon. There is NOTHING in his voting record or anything else in the entire article that suggests that his close friendships have in anyway compromised his decision making.

I am surprised this even made the news. WHAT is the story---that he knows the people. They apparently found nothing negative beyond that AND although his close friend, Jones, seems to have been compromised---he is on record as having gone up against him.

Do you think Hillary could weather the guilt by association routine?

Frankly, if at this point this is the best they can do, Obama is looking pretty good!

You keep whining that the media is not taking a close look at Obama---has it occured to you that they are but they are not coming up with much?
See my post above. There is nothing in either of their voting records to suggest either of them is tied to the coroporations, though it is fair game to make this accusation against her, but not him.

Have you got a problem with being fair?

As to the "what" concerning Obama, we don't know yet, as we haven't heard it. He's suffered very little scrutany from our press so far.

My concern is that he'll get a lot of scrutany AFTER he is the nominee, this will drive his approval rating down, and McCain will win the election.

I'd feel a lot better if anything in his closet is well known sooner, rather than later. The less vetted during the primary, the more of a risk in the general, no?

It's still all moot, my friend, as whomever wins the democratic nomination is out of my hands and, I presume, your hands, unless your state hasn't voted yet.

And, I'm many times on record, that I'll enthusiastically support either of them.

I'd prefer, at this point in time, to look ahead. I'd like to see how/who McCain starts running against. Will he run against both of them for the near future?
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I say throw all Presidential potentials in a thirty foot high steel cage and let the best one win. I bet it'd be Hillary, though. She's vicious.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I say throw all Presidential potentials in a thirty foot high steel cage and let the best one win. I bet it'd be Hillary, though. She's vicious.
I don't know...something tells me McCain would totally flip out if you put him in a cage....
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I don't know...something tells me McCain would totally flip out if you put him in a cage....
Hmm...Good point...What if we threw them on American Gladiators?
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by itsmeeeeeee View Post
all the articles reek of the kind of smear politics that have been going on which so many of us want get beyond.
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Originally Posted by RK77 View Post
I totally agree! These are non stories!! They are designed to smear.
I guess Teri didn't learn her lesson with the Rezko thread she started a couple of weeks ago.

Like that one, this thread is meaningless.

The bottom line is, Teri is a very angry, frustrated anti-Obama voter.

She resents Barack Obama.

She particularly resents those who support Barack Obama.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Find me a vote either of them has cast in the last ten years that supports the interests of the corporations over the American people.
Every reauthorize bill for funding for the Iraq war is a vote for corporate interests over the American people. You don't really think all that money goes to the troops do you? It goes to no bid contracts for HAL and Bechtel and Blackwater and a list of other corporations that ARE the reason we went into Iraq in the first place. Why do you think the reason forgoing into Iraq has shifted more than the sand of the Arabian desert. Because from the very beginning, before the Retard took office, the plan was to recoup money lost in Iraq in 1991. This isn't difficult people.

and that is just for starters.
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Old 02-11-2008, 01:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Find me a vote either of them has cast in the last ten years that supports the interests of the corporations over the American people.
and my reaction to that hsu stuff was the same!
...the money was returned, no foul!

i guarantee you, there's not a politician alive that can boast of never coming near a scumbag. but to insinuate that obama isn't at least doing what he can within his limited powers during his political career in order to attempt to initiate positive change and limit corporations based on the innuendo in these articles is nothing but smear.

and that's EXACTLY the kind of politics i've come to completely deplore.

the effort involved in posting those article totally backfired on me.
...all it did was demonstrate precisely what i'm sick to death of!
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