Obama and math and pandering... - Page 2

OldManOnFire · 02-13-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Me thinks that somehow they are guessing jobs will be created as spinoffs of this money...support industries...but who knows...

and yeah....you're right...it won't all be labor...otherwise they would be really low paying jobs...I'm willing to bet that it will be subisidies for already existing companies....

You may be right, but subsidies to produce what?

If it's developing technology or doing research we're talking about specialized workers who earn $75K and above--not 'green collar' workers...whatever this might mean.

It it's building thousands of widgets, then where do you think the manufacturing will be done??

Heretic · 02-13-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

That's pretty much my biggest disillusionment with the Democratic party...they pretend they can do things economically that can't be done....it's just pandering. But the R's haven't been much better. So much for showing fiscal restraint when the had control of all 3 branches of govt.

The the fiscale restraint in the republican platform is largely mythical. Scant few among them ever adhered to it; rather they simply doled out money to their corporate contributors along with to the arms and government contractor industries. And despite the republican party's claims Reagan never demonstrated fiscal restraint. So anyone who voted for the republicans in the last thirty years on this premise is easily duped.

OldManOnFire · 02-13-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

That's pretty much my biggest disillusionment with the Democratic party...they pretend they can do things economically that can't be done....it's just pandering. But the R's haven't been much better. So much for showing fiscal restraint when the had control of all 3 branches of govt.

It doesn't make any difference which party is in office. There are no longer any fiscal controls. The stimulus package is a good example--another $145 billion onto the deficit and debt and no one bats an eye.

$9 trillion in debt and climbing to $11.5 trillion by 2011. This will never be paid down. Taxes cannot be raised. The economy in the USA sucks for the average person. All the programs that are discussed require billion$ and trillion$ more and where the hell is all this money coming from?

And the ignorant American public falls for this crap with zero regard for the debt we are passing on to many generations. This is the height of arrogance and greed...

OldManOnFire · 02-14-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

The the fiscale restraint in the republican platform is largely mythical. Scant few among them ever adhered to it; rather they simply doled out money to their corporate contributors along with to the arms and government contractor industries. And despite the republican party's claims Reagan never demonstrated fiscal restraint. So anyone who voted for the republicans in the last thirty years on this premise is easily duped.

The only difference between Republicans and Democrats today is that PEOPLE think Republicans hold the market on Christianity, even though their form of Christianity is to take away PEOPLE's rights, discriminate against fellow human beings, use torture, and make judgement of others. Both groups have no fiscal controls. Both groups use the government as a means to an end. Both groups support business development although the Republicans kiss-ass like a preacher passing around the tithe basket. Finally, Republicans are no taxes and spend and the Dems are more taxes and spend even though today the average man has no money so taxes cannot be raised.

As bad as both groups are, until there is a kick-ass candidate who appeals to the broad spectrum of PEOPLE and a 3rd party can be created, we will be force-fed the same old crap for decades to come.

The intent of this post was to point out that even the people running for the highest office in the USA are full of lies and deceit for no other reason other than to pander for votes...

mudwhistle · 02-14-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

Today Obama announces:

Doing a little math, $210 billion over a ten year period equals about $21 billion per year. Now we don't know yet if he plans on spending $210 billion on labor only or for labor and materials?? Let's assume the best case that the $210 billion is only for labor. Compensation for jobs in construction and environmental industries will probably be a minimum of $40K annually. So if we divide $21 billion by $40,000 this program is designed to employee approximately 525,000 people. Yet his program says he will create 5 million jobs?? Okay...if we assume $40,000 annual pay and multiply this by 5 million jobs this equals approximately $200 billion per year??!! If it's a ten year program and the money is evenly spread, this will be a $2 trillion program...not a $200 billion program.

Someone please check my math and assumptions...thanks.

Further, Obama makes a gigantic assumption that the USA can remove itself from Iraq in the next couple of years. Yes we all desire this but Gates is already saying things are getting worse and not to pull out any troops. If Congress abides by their PAYGO policy, which goes like this...

"It shall not be in order to consider any bill, joint resolution, amendment, or conference report if the provisions of such measure affecting direct spending and revenues have the net effect of increasing the deficit or reducing the surplus for either the period comprising the current fiscal year and the five fiscal years beginning with the fiscal year that ends in the following calendar year or the period comprising the current fiscal year and the ten fiscal years beginning with the fiscal year that ends in the following calendar year."

...then this program cannot be funded using the Iraq occupation.

Finally, this is all about pandering, and I don't care which of the candidates does this. In this case it's Obama creating a fairy-tale scenario and playing to the weaknesses of so many who want better employment conditions. If so this is just as evil as insane-Bush and his 'fear tactics'.

And no matter if it's Obama or Clinton, all of us must pay close attention to what these people are saying to understand if their ideas have true merit or are just pandering for votes...

What do you think??

It's fuzzy math.

jdanton · 02-14-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK77

I don't get concerned with what anyone there presently says about Iraq.

We can't leave cause it's getting better.

We can't leave cause it's getting worse.

All their can'ts is why obama is trying to bring a YES WE CAN sprirt to the white house!

We HAVE to leave Iraq, as we can't afford to stay.

I worry a bit about how we'd spend this money elsewhere if not in Iraq. After all, it's all borrowed.

OldManOnFire · 02-14-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

We HAVE to leave Iraq, as we can't afford to stay.

I worry a bit about how we'd spend this money elsewhere if not in Iraq. After all, it's all borrowed.

You know what JDanton...I have not heard a single person outside of political rhetoric indicate that there is any way the US troops can be removed from Iraq in the near future. Gates is asking for no US troop removal during this summer which apparently a few were planned. The two remaining Dem candidates will only say 12-16 months which tells me they have been given the private tour of Iraq issues. If US troops left Iraq, tribe factions would immediately overthrow the current government and nothing more than total chaos will follow. All Americans, any remaining US troops, and private business employees would be in grave danger. I hated the unprovoked attack on Iraq from the beginning, I hated all that has happened to date, and I wish anything USA would leave that place today.

Whether it's affordable or not is sort of a moot point. We broke the place and now it appears we must put all the good pieces back together again. Insane-Bush and his merry band of thieves will ride off into the sunset on 2/09 without looking back while the rest of us will be burdened for who knows how long...

Can you or anyone provide a single indicator that the US can leave Iraq in the next couple of years??

Has there been a single update about the status of the Iraqi army and police??

I think everyone is focused on the election and most have forgotten about Iraq and we would never talk about it on these boards if J did not put up the Iraq Death count post. And I can hear McCain on his first public debate with a Dem saying; well folks, I can tell you this firsthand, from my years of valiant service to this nation, not like these people who have never served, that these terrorists hate the US, and if we don't stop them over there, they will attack us at home...this I know from my heart. And 50 million voters will buy into this crap!!!!!!!

I believe the fact that the US has not made an effort to leave Iraq to date indicates that there is no way to leave Iraq today, and no one knows how far in the future this can happen...

mudwhistle · 02-15-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

We HAVE to leave Iraq, as we can't afford to stay.

I worry a bit about how we'd spend this money elsewhere if not in Iraq. After all, it's all borrowed.

The money we are spending in Iraq pales in comparison to the money we are spending on entitlements including Socialist Security and Medicare/Medicade. Those are the things we have to cut spending on, as we cannot afford them. But Democrats just want to keep expanding those entitlements and raising taxes on the people who actually work in order to support those too lazy.

OldManOnFire · 02-15-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

QUOTE=mudwhistle;111255
"Taxes are too low right now." - OldManOnFire

So you are of the opinion that taxes are too high?

You don't give a damn about the $9 trillion debt which your people predict will be $11.5 trillion by 2011.

You think spending is only done by Democrats yet Republicans are easily responsible for 50% of the $3 trillion budget.

What is your solution assuming you give a damn?

I suggest you remove from your auto-signature the words that were written by me. This is plagiarism and asshole behavior...

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