winthrop

I read the cited article beginning this thread as a warning against putting too much faith in an individual politician, a wise admonition regardless of that politician's gender, race or creed.

I did not suggest you were doing otherwise, however you compared Mr. Clinton's consensual sexual affair to Mr. Bush's crimes against all of humanity in the name of financial gain and power accumulation. I find the two much much much much much different.

These are legitimate concerns. However Mr. Clinton's affairs and Ms. Clinton's accommodation of them are no more our business now than they were when Kenneth Starr picked through the stained dresses and sniffed out the cigars we very unnecessarily heard so much about.
Ms. Clinton's stories have been increasingly absurd, and those are worthy of examination. Her private relationship with her husband is not, was not ten years ago and is even less so now, any more than anyone else's relationship, worthy of public scrutiny. That matter is nothing compared to Mr. Bush's actions while in office.

Mr. McCain may be a bit more dignified and perhaps less used car salesman about continuing the Bush Cabal policies, he may continue them for different reasons, but the disastrous results will not be abated.

Heretic

It's more than that. Biden as the top half of the ticket is the more logical, more probable and more electable answer. Edwards' own legal background would cast too many long shadows into his campaign. Granted Edwards' legal practice isn't as infamous as Hillary's but it's not squeaky clean either.

Since when did rules matter in a primary...? Both parties broke the rules and the law to bar independent and third party candidates from the ballot. And Hillary's trying to break rules to squeeze in dubious elections in Florida and Michigan.

We'll talk about election rules when those rules mean anything.

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"In space no one can hear you scream. in D.C. it won't matter..." -Clinton Resurrection: The Alien Queen lives!

cheapseats

I respect the integrity of winthrop's thinking and the ordered and elegant composition of those thoughts. His unfailing composure under fire is an inspiration to hotheads like me.

HOWEVER, comma, I couldn't disagree more about Bill Clinton's serial infidelity and Mrs. Bill Clinton's complicity. It was not only literally the public's business to whatever extent in occupied national resources, it continues to speak to CHARACTER today.

I remember when MintJulep tra-la-la'd that Giuliani's mondo-bizarre twist on Infidelity in Office would be a "non-issue." That word exactly, s/he used. I said I would devote time, energy, money and skill to MAKING infidelity an issue. It speaks DIRECTLY to character.

I am committed through November...I neither withdrew nor suspended my campaign to rid my government of tawdry, hypocritical, unethical opportunists.

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itsmeeeeeee

agreed re: winthrop
agreed re: bill and hill

i, too, agree that the personal escapades of elected officials really should be off limits, if they don't break laws.

but that's the rub.

technically, clinton perjured himself.
and hillary went on public record with lies to support that perjury.
these are the legitimate questions for the voters to be concerned about.

the fact that the personal acts in question were actually nobody's business doesn't absolve them of what snared bill (and hillary!) in their very own web.

the relevant issue here is the lying that followed the blow jobs - not the blow jobs, themselves.

it's the lies, stupid.
the constant propensity to lie, lie, lie.
and THAT DOES go back to their terms in the WH.

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winthrop

I respect your views and the manner in which you present them as well. I would note that we must be careful in demanding perfection of anyone, particularly in matters of the heart. We cannot know what motivates Mr. Clinton to seek sexual solace elsewhere, nor can we know why Ms. Clinton chooses to stay with her husband.

Perhaps he is a slobbering predator, unable to maintain a platonic relationship with any woman, and perhaps she is a blindly ambitious power monger who will overlook any humiliation to achieve her nefarious goals.

Perhaps sex is of little interest to her, and perhaps it is of excessive interest to him. Perhaps they have a private understanding wherein he may pursue any strumpet who will have him, as long as he leaves Ms. Clinton alone.

If the latter situation concerned our neighbors, it would be considered a private personal matter, and none of anyone else's concern. Since these people act on the world stage we seem to consider it important. Ms. Clinton is humiliated, if she is, because the world pays attention to her personal issues.

If the situation is reflected in the former scenario, some may consider that cause for concern, but there is other ample evidence to examine, more relevant to everyone, without speculating about this couple's most intimate motivations.
For example, I consider Ms. Clinton's willingness to tell an obvious, provable lie about an event which could affect us all (Bosnian misadventure) more disturbing than her willingness to overlook her husband's sexual interests. On the latter subject, I agree with Chelsea Clinton. It is none of our business.

winthrop

Yes, that is the problem. But there are demonstrable lies (again, Bosnia) which should be far more disturbing than a woman covering for her husband. That is my only point. It is not a defense of Ms. Clinton as a candidate or potential president to point out that is one ...er... boat which seems to be floated in this punch bowl these days the ramifications of which I contend we do not have enough information to fairly evaluate.

Rigged

I second that...but the most qualified people never run because I think they are smart...I forget who said it but " the most intelligent stay away from politics?"

Its to bad cause I was a big Biden supporter, less edwards (I didn't like alot of his policies)

Ouroboros

I rather see the perfect electorate and not the dumbed-down knee-jerk media-hyped one we're stuck with. I am once again thoroughly disgusted with the "choices" we've had thrusted upon us. It's a fucking circus. When are the Dems going to stop trying to prove how righteous they are and pick a candidate with the proper credentials?

cheapseats

What an apt expression in modern times...the straw that broke the camel’s back. There is a moment, you know? Boom, finito...DONE with some shit or other, just sick of it. I am arrived at that point.

Last year, for the first time in over a decade, I was made to feel that my accountant had assumed an adversarial role in the tax compliance process. I can be thin-skinned and hyper-sensitive, prone to imagine slights right along with the most neurotic of them, but this isn't one of those times. Differences in demands and treatment were inarguably present from previous years. And a significantly higher preparation fee.

That is a whole other story, to which I have every intention of returning.

One aspect is that, unbeknownst to me, my accountant filed for an extension...the first in my adult life. I have filed a tax return since I was in high school, I think. Didn't we have to file an EZPZ return if we had part-time jobs?

Regardless, my first extension.

I had intended to replace my accountant between then and now, but I am OVERWHELMED by the burdens placed upon me by my government and the handful of Big Monied interests who control my chief expenses, both of whom seek to rip me off at every turn. Both of them. I am so far behind, I despair of ever catching up...while Government Officials lead lives featuring expense-paid travel, hob-nobbing with big shots and celebrities, guaranteed salaries, lifetime security. And let us not forget the thing they seem most to relish, they get to be on TV.

I went without a TV for over a year. I pressed a wrong button on one of two remotes that are required to have television reception in an apartment that is less than one-quarter of the size of the home in which I formerly lived and...scratchy scratchy snowy snowy...one press of one wrong button and I am rendered without news.

That would be the day AFTER the Hewlett Packard all-in-one read that, all-on-the-fritz contraption that has caused me NOTHING BUT GRIEF since I bought it on sale quit scanning mid-ridiculous-waste-of-taxpayer-money IRS letter advising that the check WILL be in the mail.

And that would be the day BEFORE I got a ticket for parking on the cleaning day for third-world-caliber streets.

I am welcome to pay someone $75/hour, however, to come fix the problems. It could run over an hour, he warns me.

I've fucking had it.

I have requested that my accountant, who is again pressured and ALSO running behind, due to the many new lines for HIM to tow, again file an extension on my behalf.

I am not doing any filing OR PAYING of taxes by April 15th.

As far as I can attest, with all manner of documentation, my government has done NOT ONE FUCKING THING FOR ME THIS MILLENNIUM.

I'm DONE paying for nothing. Like the Bastards and Robber Barons keep telling US, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

These are quintessentially American concepts and commitments:

You don't get something for nothing.

You get what you pay for.

No taxation without representation.

NOTHING is what I am getting.

NOTHING is what I will give in return.

If we can have a moratorium on foreclosures and bail out of Bear Stearns, I submit that I have just causes to likewise be granted relief. Such is the case I will plead. Like any other Lobbyist, Defendant, Lawyer, Politico or Money Man.

SOMEONE'S GOT SOME FUCKING 'SPLAINING TO DO.

ImpendBlog

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Ouroboros

^ I haven't filed for the entire time "Numb Nuts" has been in office. Fuck 'em. All that money goes to the Federal Reserve anyway.