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Old 04-02-2008, 11:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Heavy_monkey2.0 View Post
Heretic you seem to be commited to the Nth degree for Democratic Hopeful Obama, do you honestly believe that he can clean up even his own party?
Not completely, but he'll get much further than anyone else. Besides, if the Alien queen got the nomination it'd get even worse. The D.I.N.O.'s would complete the transition to being extreme right wing.

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I know you view him as someone worth supporting as opposed to a 'lesser of evils'.
The lesser of evils is how Jr. got elected [even though he was clearly the worst]. See, everytime we let the bar slide lower, someone comes along and slips under it convincing us to drop our standards even more.

When you build better idiot proofing you get a bigger idiot.

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To date he cannot put-away/KO Hilary, hes winning ...but shouldnt it be over?
Bare in mind that for over a year Hillary was considered as a show-in and got softball treatment for the whole of 2007. And with ten (D) candidates it's hard to detect an anti-Hillary vote. Once you're down to two it becomes painfully obvious.

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If he cannot convince his own party leaders, how does he stand a chance of getting anything accomplished if he were to win in the GE?
Not wanting to sound like I'm dependent on Obama talking points, but it won't just be Obama convincing party bosses. It'll also be the voters backing him up with E-mails, letters and petitions to the power brokers. Any of them daring to use the same ole, same ole risks the wrath of the largest voter turnout in decades.

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I dont believe he trandscends democratic politics as usual, my only proof is that he has yet to bring them (dems/ party leaders) into the fold, and i know that argument could be used both ways.

He speaks out against bad ideas, but many of these ideas already have names associated with them, he doesnt name names...i dont see a 'higher standard' being met by Mr Obama, i dont believe he is anything but a politician...so 'hilary aside' ,what EXACTLY convinced you?
What bad ideas to you say he's linked to?

Obama is actually dependent on regular voters- even financially, and he'll be forced to respond to us over lobbyists. As Biden said, "Show me your financial books and i'll show you your priorities." Plus, he doesn't insult my intelligence in his speeches. And he gives an honest answer. Also, when he doesn't get nasty it's not because positive sells, but because that's not who he is. Jdanton would have us believe that being too nice is a downfall, but then again where's nasty gotten us? Two terms of Jr. is what it got us.

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i pose this to you because NONE have railed harder against 'business-as-usual' democrats than you.
And to date no other democrat running for other offices in this electino year has done anything to get my vote. Obama may well remain the only Democrat to get my vote in November. And still if Obama takes Hillary as his running mate then he still uses my support [that's right, zero tollerance for the Alien queen].
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Old 04-03-2008, 12:09 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Heretic View Post


What bad ideas to you say he's linked to?




oh party politics...


i wasnt saying that hes linked to them, just that hes vague in his criticism. (also his inspiration)


2 cents worth
he seems to have distanced himself from someone he could 'no more disown than his own grandmother'

overall, i thinks hes the best choice available, but to become swept up in an estatic fit of obam-phoria...i am not.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:44 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_monkey2.0 View Post
oh party politics...


i wasnt saying that hes linked to them, just that hes vague in his criticism. (also his inspiration)
Because all the primary candidates who got into specifics are now out of the race. That pisses me off too, but that's how it is. There's just too many stupid voters for specifics to mean anything. And still Obama gets into more specifics than Hillary BY FAR. His college/volunteer program is specific. So too is his policy on ending corporate tax breaks for outsourcing.

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2 cents worth
he seems to have distanced himself from someone he could 'no more disown than his own grandmother'
Not at all. The fact that Wright wasn't a keystone to his campaign in the first place [because Wright's retired] means nothing's changed.

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overall, i thinks hes the best choice available, but to become swept up in an estatic fit of obam-phoria...i am not.
Nor am I. See, I'm supporting him based on the logic and electorally strategic reasons. In fact you'll find mine to be the more common view than you've been misled to believe.
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