neptune

I heard shit like that too. I'm guessing your friend was in around the same time I was. What he describes is cold-blooded murder. On the one cruise to the Western Pacific I made on an aircraft carrier, we lost a couple to man-overboard. I didn't know them, but I always sort of catagorized stories like that as sort of "urban-legend-y", although, there is probably a shred of truth to them at the core.

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It's....disappeared!
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ibex

I agree, especially since the military deals with actual suicides, friendly fire and accidental deaths as a matter of routine. However, the secrecy required and often abused by some in the military ,Federal law enforcement as well as agencies like the CIA only fuels conpsiracy theories and urban legends. The urban legends and more recently the "truther" accounts surrounding 9/11 actually allow the powers that be to protect the official version of events, labeling anybody who questions the status quo explanation as a wing nut. So if you happen to have been lucky enough as a kid to have somebody tell you to think for yourself, just do it and do it incessantly.

CosmicRocker

It was a compromise, because the Republicans, with the aid of the military brass would NOT accept openly gay military personel.

So they came up with, "let them stay in as long as they don't act. or say gay things"

It's a ridiculous rule, but it has worked pretty well in the absence of having no gay recruitment bans.

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Mithrall

It was a ridiculous cop out for Bill Clinton to cave to the military brass on this issue. The military brass used the same arguement against racial integration, that it would destroy military cohesion. Gimme a break, the military trains soldiers to react contrary to thier instincts and best interest, advancing into enemy fire etc and they can't deal with having gays in the military? Sounds like they were admitting dereliction of duty and Clinton should have fired them. I am not sure if I ever served with anyone who was gay, but statistics say I probably did.

I am sick to death of the elitists who claim the "honor" of serving should just be reserved for straight men, and then don't bother to enlist themselves and go to great lengths to keep thier own sons and daughters out of harms way during wartime.

babylonDon

As much as we (and Clinton, at the time) wanted the issue clear cut, and uncompromising, Clinton fought constantly against the most partisan, most combative congress, in recent history. The fact that Clinton managed to do anything is nothing short of miraculous, given the opposition he faced on every single issue. Most everything he did accomplish, was through as much compromise as he was able to attain.

Like segregation, first steps took on the flavor of appeasement. It's an ugly reality. He did get a foot in the door. An 'all or nothing' attitude, would have gained nothing.


Amen.

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jdanton

I expect repealling this is a very popular idea. You may recall, Hillary's also said she want it repealed: "We don't want people who are straight so much as shoot straight" (close quote)

The problem is that this is another issue that hurts the dems because there are people out there to whom keeping gays out of the military is more important than keeping their jobs.

It will bring more anti gay voters to the polls in November, and they won't be voting for the democrat.

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neptune

Are you advocating the Dems should stand for continuing this discriminatory policy for partisan political purposes?

What is YOUR position, Danton? Exactly, specifically.

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Holy Mudhead, mackerel! Morse Science High!
It's....disappeared!
-- Firesign Theatre

jdanton

My position is this shouldn't be an issue. It ought not matter if one is gay or not to serve in the military.

The people who make it an issue do so based upon their religious beliefs.

My overall view is that the religious people believe homosexuality is a mistake, God doesn't make mistakes, so therefore they cannot be born gay, as that would be God making a mistake.

Look at the price. We lost a number of greatly needed interpretors because they were gay. What sense does that make?

I'm not the one who you need to debate this with. It is those same people who are against gay marriage who are against gays serving in the military, based upon non justified fears of who knows what.

I don't think the military ought to concern itself with the sexual preferences of its troops.

Is that clear enough?

I should add here that people who don't want gays in the military are, to my mind, irrational, but they vote.

A very large number of people vote on what I call irrational issues. Making abortion illegal, flag burning, keeping gays from getting married or joining the military, are all issues more important on election day than having a job or healthcare

These are people who cannot be reasoned with, nor kept from voting. There's enough of them to swing an election.

I personally believe gays should be able to get married. I don't believe in civil unions, as I see the loan forms and job applications with "civil unioned" on them.

I'm also aware that any candidate who comes out full square for gay marriage is doomed.

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K2Flex

My brother in law is a retired Master Chief and this is the very reason he retired 2 years ago. He was the one that had to fill out the reports, and just got sick and tired of it. He said it still happens now.

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Environment Man

How would one know that another was gay in the military? Clinger?