Veronica

Yes, he joined the board and added nothing, just prove to me why I should vote one way or another. E-man may ride both sides of the fence but he is consistent. I like E-man for his humor, maybe you are taking him to seriously. I have nothing against the new poster, just don't trust someone riding the fence at this point, and I found the thread arrogant, give me some reasons to vote for a candidate? I don't have people come into my home and demand I give them a reason to stay. Just got off on the wrong foot. Maybe it was the way I read the post.

babylonDon

Read some of his/her other posts. His feelings aren't different from yours on social issues.
My belief is that there are a lot of people who feel the whole political process has run away. After the last seven years, anyone who feels a little cynical, can be forgiven.

Negativity is pervasive, they asked for some positives. My take on the thread, was someone looking for something positive, maybe to be embraced. And to have someone immediately answer the post with a snide remark, doesn't add anything. It was typical self-indulgence, form an attention prostitute, unrivaled by anyone I've ever seen, anywhere.

At the risk of turning this into yet another e-man thread, I wonder how many potentially interesting posters, have blown this site off, after reading one of his rants about drowning women in bleach. Or deciding that they wanted to actually discuss an issue, without having to wade through posts about how the issue intersects with e-mans super powers.

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“The irony of the Information Age is that it has given new respectability to uninformed opinion."-John Lawton

jdanton

I don't know, exactly, what you're looking for.

I've liked Hillary because she's given more concise, thought out answers to questions, in my opinion. She was the first one, with regards to exiting Iraq, felt the first step would be getting a plan drawn up to do so.

FACTS, as I see them, is Hillary and Obama have virtually identical stated goals. They will have virtually the same congressional make up as would the other.

Both will address withdrawing from Iraq, global warming, healthcare, balancing our budget, getting us off of oil, etc........

Neither will be able to do anything about the way congress functions internally.

Their voting records are extremely similar, showing their core values are extremely similar.

It is my belief that Obama is more easily swiftboated than is Hillary, simply because we know so much about Hillary.

His "gaff" this week, while actually an honest statement of fact, will be held against him. His relationship of 20 years with Rev. Wright will be held against him, as will his wife's statement about "finally being proud to be an American"

He still has a lot of blanks on his page, and these make him swiftboatable, IMO>

We know so much about Hillary that anything they throw at her in the general election will be seen, IMO, as ancient news, or ficticious.

Both Obama and Clinton will, I belive make very good presidents, although, like Kennedy, he's more apt to make some rookie mistakes. However, he's certainly shown the ability to get good people to advise him, and may avoid these.

The questions, as I recall, that I though Hillary gave better answers to included:

Withdrawing from Iraq: not just our troops, but the private contractors, and we don't want the Iraqis who've help us to be slaughtered when we leave.

English: There is a difference between English being an "official" language, as opposed to being a "national" language. She seemed to be the only candidate who knew that.

Much is contested about her experience as first lady and whether or not it should count. My view is she saw a white house put together, close up. She knows what worked and what didn't work, and was more involved in various things than most first ladies, and this should count for something.

I have been extremely disappointed in her recent embellishments (and told her so) of things like her trip to Bosnia that needed no embellishment.

I will prouly support whomever gets the nomination, but I have two fears with Obama. The first, as expressed, is he'll be easier to swiftboat. The second is he's inspired a lot of people, but only to vote for him. When he fails to deliver on those promises that God himself couldn't deliver on, today's "inspired" will be tomorrow's "disillusioned."

__________________
Author: Memoirs of a Sleepless Mind, a book you CAN judge by its cover.

Rollerball

These days anyone with a low post count is suspect. Not only because of the regular visits from the hbo doggy troll, but as the election gets closer you can expect troll activity to increase. And eman knew perfectly well it was his doggie friend from hbo that he was agreeing with.

If I see a new poster with less than 20 or so posts, and if I care, I'll do a quick scan of other things they posted. You don't have to do that when the doggie visits, he's petty obvious the first time you notice him.

But I also agree with your point about anyone that hasn't made up their mind at this point, it seems to me that if a person hasn't cared about the election up until now, they probably never will. If you say you're a totally blank slate at this point you're either lying or totally oblivious.

Chungar

Hello again,
By posting this thread I apologize to those that may find it arrogant.
I have no other interest than to hear from you fine folks regarding this election. And here's why...
Basically I haven't following it as much as I should these past few months and I'd like to hear people's opinions. I basically spend most of my time either working and raising 2 teenagers and while I have paid attention to some extent I really am trying to make a disission.
And then as far as posting here, I would tend to agree with more with what I read here than what I hear in most other places.
By seeing the different avitars and rantings from some of you I can say that my background is more in line with yours than mainstream America. I didn't mean this a challange or anything, just a friendly discussion regarding the SHIT that's happening in this day and age!

RK77

I'm not for paying more taxes unless they tell me something about how they are going to spend the money. I am not in any way willing to continue to finance a failed dysfunctional government!

Fuck 'em! It is time to "tough love" America!

Chungar

RK77 - thanks for the Inspiration!
Looking forward to your next post

RK77

I am glad to see that for whatever reason you have been inspired to seek more information about the candidates.

I think that, for me, the overall philosophical base of the candidate---how they see government---what they see to be governments role---how they see the office of the president --- what direction they would like to move in---these are the things that govern my decision.

I was an Edwards person until he left the race.

I wanted (want) someone to hold this administration accountable for all the crap it has done.

But --- it seems that more of America wants to move forward even if it means letting Bush as his den of murderous theives get away.

So I (like many here) was left with the choice between Hillary and Obama.

I chose a philosophical base of fundamental change in the direction that would begin to return the power to the people (where I believe it belongs).

I love the promise of America but I feel that we fall far short of that promise in many respects. I believe we do this because so many have grown cynical about what can be done.

Those who are sooo profoundly entrenched and extraordinarily invested in the government as it functions now will not try to change it. They will just keep trying to smear lipstick on the pig.

Hillary says she wants to "clean house". What she describes to me is straightening up. I want total spring cleaning! I want all the nooks and crannies of the system cleaned out. I want the refrigerator and the stove pulled out and the floor underneath scoured.

The reason that Hillary and McCain keep focusing on experience is because they firmly believe that the ONLY way to lead the country is by being the most willy criminal in the bunch. They seem to pride themselves on having perfected the manipulations of the dysfunctional government.

That is nice. But I want my government to seek to cease to be dysfunctional. Thus, I have NO interest is someone who is "good" at participating in the "dysfunction"

I don't want to just see new laws and label that change.

I want to apply the substantial powers of the people to shift the entire direction. I want us to start changing the mindsets that got us into this mess---no just to scramble to cover over it.

Someone here pointed out that taking the time out to try to punish Bush and crew now could place the government in a holding pattern and slow our progress.

That is why I am for Obama. He came out of the gate defying all conventional wisdom.

Till this election--everyone in America would have agreed that corporate america and lobbiests and pacs were essential and central to funding a presidential campaign. Obama seems to have said---"we'll see about that" ---- and he has proven that not only will the people finance a candidate who inspires and energizes them but that the people can out fund all other sources.

THIS is the type of CHANGE I want to see! Not only is it a change in direction---it has proven itself to shift the power.

When the dem big time donors sent a letter trying to threaten Pelosi---she was (because of the PEOPLE) able to essentially tell the donors to kiss her butt. For me, that illustrates that the balance of power can be shifted to the people---slowly but surely we can take our nation back.

I am certain that many others can dish the dirt with you about all the candidates. I suppose I could too--(being modest here)-- but only a dolt think all the things that the press focuses on and the things we argue about here day in and out are the crux of what we are deciding (or need to decide). Only a political neophyte actually thinks that ANY policy or plan or proposal offered now means anything whatsoever! PRETENDING to answer the publics "what would you do" questions is a game that has been structured to make to fake out the people.

Retarded concerns about how "detailed" the plan is or how the programs would be financed are for those who like to "play" government every 4 years or so. Fantascizing that you know something about a candidate because you know what church he attends with which pastor is a diversion.

To me, you need to know what a person sees to be the purpose of government, the role of our government in our lives and in the world AND how that person believes the powers are weilded.

McCain seems to think that Military Power is the most essential to well---everything.

Hillary seems to think that the government should parent the state for the people. She will be the peoples voice. She will "fight" for you! She will make your life better ---all you have to do is vote for her and she'll take it from there.

Obama has illustrated that he believes that the people should be asked to participate and with that participation can shape the priorities focus and direction of government. He will open the doors and believes that with access (on a more level playing field) the people will take it from there.

We have a clear choice to make. Will we continue with business as usual in DC or will we do something that may seem a little scarier to some---will we stand up and take our government back.?

RK77

That makes one of you! I am long winded but I hope you understand that I am "from the heart".

I am going to divide this over several posts and give you a chance to absorb a bit.

HOW do the people take the government back! How does that change happen.

INFORMED CONSENT

We forcus of the bullshit the press laps up because the critical info that we really need to make determinations is being systematically and intentionally kept from us.

Obama has proposed:

1) A more transparent process---the example he has used twice in debates is Healthcare. He suggests that by televising all discussions and votes with regard to healthcare on c-span (giving the people a seat at the table) MUCH of what the politicians would otherwise do behind closed doors will change.

For example (mine not Obama's)--If the people of Massechusets had been able to watch the debates regarding their now in effect mandated Healthcare I doubt that they would have agreed to a $150.00 per month penalty for NOT being insured after one year.

I think the people would have asked WHY should premiums be increased based on how long it took you to sign up. I think the people would have asked WHY the insurance industry claims that it costs several thousand dollars for people to change plans (the argument they make for locking people into plans then changing all the rules).

I think the people would ask WHY should the insurance companies be allowed to change policies for coverage AFTER the patient has payed into a plan for some time. ( Like: when you made the agreement you had covered doctors visits and NOW office visits aren't covered).

These are the sorts of unbelievably ABSURD things that the public would NEVER agree to!! I make a deal with you, pay you, and you get to determine which clauses of our original deal you will honor ---AT WILL?? Who would agree to that?

If you contact your representatives someone in their office will kindly explain to you that "compromises" had to occur and blame the other party. Even with what you can see on C-span now you can tell that is BULLSHIT!

When you know who said what about what (not the prepared speeches from the floor before they vote---the debates in committees as the bills are being contructed)--YOUR vote can be a much more informed one.

It tremendously dilutes the influence of the lobbyists! SURE they can get the politicians to shift their way when some thin veil of protection or a complex series of lies that you have no way to confirm are available to them. What do you think would happen if that politician was on video tape arguing that people should pay a $150.00 per month penalty for something? I don't think they have the balls to look their voters in the eye and agree to OBVIOUS bullshit like that.

Heavy_monkey2.0

we got you covered. you can go-back 10, 50 or 100 pages and work your way forward ...