Rigged

I don't think its as simple as just Pulling out of iraq. I think many times we forget how complex these issues really are. I love rhetoric as much as the next person but does Obama or even Clinton really have a withdrawl plan that makes sense? Either of them?

I support Obama but I am getting a little tired of his platitudes and in certain areas lack of substance. I understand this is a campaign and its all preliminary but I don't know if I like his style of management. I prefer someone who is more hands on--this is how we got into serious messes just leaving things to advisors to do without any direct oversight. I think the best example of this is Dick Cheney and the Wiretapping.

As for the comments he made in about "working class" people, I think he was just talking "to" his audience. Look at the fund raiser he was at...snotty California ultra-left liberals. I can't imagine if he was in Kentucky he would be saying the same stuff at a union rally. The comment was a little more true than we care to acknowledge though. Sometimes people getting offended opens up a dialog we wouldn't or couldn't have before. But as usual the media has taken it the exact OPPOSITE way it should go.

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CosmicRocker

^ good take on Iraq.
Like everyhting else in the mid-east; nothing is as it seems on the surface.

How do we unentangle ourselves without the region being de-stabilized.


Interesting take on Obmas comments.
not sure if i agree; but that's an intriguing way of looking at his comments.

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RK77

Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all

-- Emily Dickinson

HarperLee

ABC Debate Analysis:

The Dead Guy » ABC Debate Analysis

jdanton

My first impression was that both these people look tired, and they both deserve to.

My second impression was the questions were still about stupid shit. Debate was half over before that got into any issues of merit.

Obama had a bad moment when he was reminded that his raising the cap on ss witholding would be raising a tax on people he had just pledged not to raise taxes on.

I expect that clip will come back to haunt him.

If I may digress for a brief moment, an Obama supporter (a very nice one) called me yesterday. We had a pleasant conversation. I told him I'd vote for either in November and that their stated goals are extremely similar, their congress will be the same for either, and it doesn't seem to make a large amount of difference.

He agreed with me, but shared some horror stories of fights between Obama supporters and Hillary supporters he's witnessed. We both agreed people take this far to personally.

Obama gives a better speech. Hillary does better when answering questions; I think (and this is just an impression) that she has a better command of a wider range of facts than he does.

Maybe that's because she's been in the senate longer, the committees she's on, or such.

When they got to the issue questions, the differences between the two were very slight. The differences between either of them and McCain are quite huge.

Who won this debate? The American people. Either of these candidates will make a much better president than will McCain.

If we can all unite behind our nominee, our nominee should win the White House.

If the supporters of either refuse to vote for the other, McCain will likely be our next president.

I would ask everyone to take another look at their voting records. You'll find Hillary and Obama have virtually similar records, with rare differences. That's where the 'rubber meets the road", is it not?

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jdanton

Good question.

These stupid questions that filled the first part of this debate are an excellent example of why I blame the media.

One interesting thing in this debate, is candidate speaking time was being kept. Obama kept getting more time, which wasn't a bad thing, as he speaks more slowly and it takes him a little more time to get his idea out.

Better he's allowed to finish his thoughts than not, I think.

Both were given time to actually get their answers out, which I believe is better than over worrying about time.

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jdanton

I wouldn't call it an ambush. I'd call it giving him free air time to explain the statements that have been getting attacked by so many.

Guess that's a perspective type thing.

I would have much preferred getting into major issues instead of the "gotcha" stuff.

Both these people looked tired and worn, I thought.

Obama got caught in a minor gaffe that will likely turn into a big thing about SS taxes contradicting himself.

I think Hillary gave a good explanation as to why she will begin drawing down troops in 60 days.

I don't think we heard anything new. They did take a few moments at attacking McCain.

She did get asked about electability, and Obama supporters will construe this as an attack, other will take it as a statement of fact.

It may not be fair to use Reverand Wright against Obama, but it will happen. Same with his "bitter" statement, and his wife's statement about finally being proud to be an American.

I've argued for months that the most important thing for the public to look at is the voting records of these people. To me those records are more indicative of how close they are to my values, or your values.

However, the voting public won't take the time or trouble to do this. They would prefer to listen to the springer type stuff.

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jdanton

I think we have to be realistic. There are no GOOD options in Iraq.

Sometimes in life you have to pick one of the available options and hope it's correct.

We KNOW we're borrowing a ton of money from China to keep this war going. We KNOW this is resulting in a lot of deaths and wounds, and that little or no progress has been made toward the real goal; a more stable region.

My personal view is if the person elected in November is committed to pulling our troops out, it will send a very strong signal to the people and leaders in that area, and we'll have to see how they react.

One POSSIBLE reaction is the violence will stop. They know wel'll be leaving, so why continue killing people? Maybe not killing each other will become a new habit.

Iraq is one of those holes where we should stop digging, no?

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Heretic

Bullshit as usual. But what should we expect from thinly veiled hit jobs.

When in fact there's a huge difference between Obama and Hillary. Obama DOES NOT support predatory lending; he DOES NOT back corporate interests over those of workers; he DOES NOT do the insurance industry's bidding and he DOES NOT take oil money.

In fact Hillary does far WORSE when it comes to answering questions. She obfiscates constantly, distracts when she can and lies even when answering right away.

<<<BULLSHIT DETECTED>>>

She's only been in seven years. And most of that time was spent supporting the extreme right wing on economic and foriegn policy.

<<<BULLSHIT DETECTED>>>

<<<BULLSHIT DETECTION OVERLOAD>>>

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itsmeeeeeee

well, as usual, you're one of the FEW who isn't calling it exactly what it was - an ambush!

i could probably spend my ENTIRE day posting nothing BUT articles regarding this obvious "hit job"... but i have work to catch up on and i better get at it.

expect clinton's numbers to completely tank in the next few days.
and ABC'S ratings to do the same!

next guy who's going to join gonzales on the bread line?
george streptococcus!

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