Obama on gas prices - Page 2

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curator

Because Washington is controlled by the corporate oil and auto lobbyist as well as a 100 others. If you limit the lobbyist influence you limit the legislation they favor to protect their profits. You remove this protectionism and then true innovation can happen in alternative fuels and other fuel efficient measures. All resulting in lower gas prices.

Now explain to me how ANY president controls the influence of lobbyists on the Congress? That's the big lie in this campaign. The president is in charge of the Executive Branch. The bills go through the Legislative Branch, which, under the constitution, makes it's own rules as to how it operates.

The oil industry is not fighting alternate fuels, because they will be part of the delivery system to your cars. You will be filling up at the same places you fill up now.

If Exxxon pumps the new fuel into your car and they make the same money per gallon as they do with gas, why would they care?

As for fuel efficiency, I think the public is tuned in. I have a very large size friend; over 6' tall, and about 250lbs, who after suffering as one of those "chain reaction" victims of 9/11 has finally got steady work and was able to buy a new car.

He is single, so he bought the smallest Hyundai model. His logic, which I'm sure is repeated many times, was to buy the smallest, most fuel efficient vehicle that he could comfortably get in and out of and ride in.

The automakers aren't stupid. They build what sells.

Many families are "trapped" into SUV's and minivans because they need the room.

With the advent of the mini van, station wagons became pretty much a thing of the past. This is sad. If the modern couple with kids could experience the the station wagon, many would prefer it to the minivan, and my Taurus Wagon gets better gas mileage than Ford's minivan. I'm hoping Camry bring back it's wagon in a hybrid. That would be a 45 mpg vehicle which will carry 7 people if some of them are children.

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PursuitOfHappinessParty

Not to mention the removal of the need for and the limit on the acceptance of campaign contributions. As long as you need to spend $100+ million to be elected, you're going to be beholden to a party and corporate $.

Love your Avatar, tho I suggest the elephant and donkey holding hands while anal raping a stick-figure (citizen)! Don't forget the corporate (c).

Supreme court has already determined campaign contributions are free speech.

I'm not arguing that the system stinks. The money needed can't help but to corrupt it. The media is geared to entertain us rather than inform us.

You are, however, kidding yourself if you think any president is going to change this system.

The best we can hope for in a president is one who will consider qualifications above friendship when appointing people. Who will put the law above loyalty if one of those he appoints does something illegal, etc.....

It gets back to that nagging question: MOST of Washington's business is conducted by Congress. How does any president change the way Congress does business?

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowhand

Whether or not Obama has a plan, at least he called it what it was, a bandaid whos motive is to get votes..He said that having gas tax holidays isnt going to do a thing to change the price or to address the problem..The problem is still gonna be there, and that is the truth..Under Hillary's and McCain "plan" we are going to save what?..$28.00?..Just like the Bush tax rebates..Most folks are gonna get $600..Im disabled and dont make enough, so Im only gonna get $300..Big deal!..You want, to help me out?..Send me 5 grand, and stick the $300 and the $28 where the sun dont shine

Actually, I don't think he's being so smart. He's right, it's not much help, but to a really struggling family, a 25 cent savings on a gallon of gas is some help.

Let's reverse it and say it goes up 25 cents. His argument is that it isn't that much. It'll only cost you 30 bucks over the summer.

Actually, doesn't the amount it costs or saves depend upon how much driving you do?

What's dishonest, to my mind, is the concept that the federal government, under any president, can do anything about the price of gas.

I'm open for anyone here to give me an idea of what the federal government can do to bring the price of gas down.

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarperLee

Obama does have a plan, posted here last night by the Administrator.
You refused to acknowledge or intelligently discuss such a plan
because it is so much easier for you to ask for the 9,248th time
how Obama can change the way Washington does business.

From Bloomberg.com

Obama May Levy $15 Billion Tax on Oil Company Profit (Update1)

By Daniel Whitten

May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama's proposal for a windfall profits tax on oil companies could cost $15 billion a year at last year's profit levels, a campaign adviser said.

The plan would target profit from the biggest oil companies by taxing each barrel of oil costing more than $80, according to a fact sheet on the proposal. The tax would help pay for a $1,000 tax cut for working families, an expansion of the earned- income tax credit and assistance for people who can't afford their energy bills.

``The profits right now are so remarkable that one could trim them 10 percent or so, which would turn out to be somewhere in the $15 billion range,'' said Jason Grumet, an adviser to the Obama campaign.

Obama's plan may be three times larger than the $50 billion, 10-year plan contemplated by his Democratic rival, New York Senator Hillary Clinton. Republican candidate John McCain, an Arizona senator, has no plan to raise oil and gas industry taxes, said his economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin.

Oil companies would still have ample reason to ``continue to pursue production, while at the same time providing relief to consumers,'' Grumet said.

A flurry of energy proposals from presidential candidates and lawmakers has come after crude oil futures prices reached $119.93 a barrel on April 28. Retail gasoline prices hit a record $3.603 a gallon this week, according to the U.S. Energy Department.

Obama's Proposal

Among the options Illinois Senator Obama is mulling is imposing a 20 percent tax on the cost of a barrel of oil above $80, said Grumet, who spoke at a conference in Washington today.

``The industry has profited greatly -- over $150 billion in 2007 -- due to global instability fueled by conflict in Iraq, failing domestic fiscal policies that have weakened the U.S. dollar and skyrocketing global demand resulting from a lack of investment in alternatives,'' said the Obama fact sheet.

Energy companies argue that new taxes will discourage production at a time when supply is needed most.

Clinton would impose a $20 billion windfall profits tax on oil companies over the next decade and repeal $30 billion in tax breaks over 10 years to pay into a so-called strategic energy fund, said Brian Deese, Clinton's economic policy director.

Gas-Tax Holiday

Clinton has proposed a gas-tax holiday for the summer paid for by about $9 billion in windfall profits taxes on oil companies. She would repeal an 18.4 cent per-gallon tax on gasoline and a 24.4 cent per-gallon tax on diesel fuel. Obama opposes the idea, saying it will provide minimal relief to consumers.

Oil companies got about $12 billion in tax breaks last year, Grumet said, and the windfall tax would aim to roll back all of those subsidies.

The top five oil companies, San Ramon, California-based Chevron Corp.; Houston-based ConocoPhillips; Irving, Texas-based Exxon Mobil Corp.; BP Plc in London; and the Hague-based Royal Dutch Shell Plc. reported $123 billion in profits for last year.

Exxon Mobil said first-quarter net income rose to $10.9 billion, or $2.03 a share, from $9.28 billion, or $1.62, a year earlier. The profits report fell short of analyst estimates as production dropped and profit margins from refining narrowed.

How does adding a tax of any kind to the oil companies bring the price at the pump down? Wouldn't they just pass that tax on to the consumer?

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heavy_monkey2.0

there should be no subsidies for oil companies...NOT a 'Rolling back of' but a clear abscence of them....obama (my candidate) imo doesnt go far enough in revealing how he is going to attempt to change the way business is done, of course he is still trying to get there first...

I heard obama claim that the gasoline 'holiday' tax cut, a tax which is used to fund maintenence on highways could result in the loss of funding to pay highway/construction workers. dont know if this is an issue or not but thought i would repeat it here.

He's right, it would.

Hillary's plan is to combine this with a windfall profit tax to cover it; that would raise prices at the pump.

Pull the subsidies, sounds good, but it will raise prices at the pump.

It's that nagging question: where does the government get the right to set prices, profits, etc. for private industries?

Whatever the oil companies are, they are not stupid. Don't you think they know that, under any circumstances, we will one day run out of oil?

I have an alternative theory. I think new fuels are being developed, but they're going to have a problem of cost concerning an infrastructure to get them to your local filling station. They will have to be competitive with gas in order to catch on.

Maybe gas is going to creep up until it reached the price that will have to be charged for that new fuels.

Just a thought.

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PursuitOfHappinessParty

I've seen absolutely nothing to make me agree.

Exxon mobil earned $10.9 billion during the first quarter, up 17% from a year ago. That would be a profit to sales of around 10%.

$93 Average price of a barrel of oil sold by Exxon in the first quarter.
$55 Average price for the same period a year ago.

These aren't sneakers we're talking about, it's the lifeblood of our modern society.

So?

How does our government set the price and profits and salaries and bonuses of private companies?

We have willingly, and happily, walked into this situation. To the extent that supply and demand takes a place here, look at all those big SUV's on our highways.

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkavian

So... What's wrong with profit to sales of around 10%? If you wish to complain about the cost of oil per barrel, complain to the US Fed who prints money non stop recently... And also Chinese and Indian Joe Sixpacks who want a better life for themselves...

You would have to pass legislation about maximum wages. I'd support it, but I'm not sure it would be held as constitutional by the present court.

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PursuitOfHappinessParty

As a continuing percentage. Remember that's against a year ago, and I don't remember gas prices being hunky-dorey a year ago. That a 17% profit comparative increase to that very same model in-use a year ago. Looking at continuing quarterly profits since Iraq II started and I see a pattern of gouging and abuse.

Blaming China, India, or the Federal Reserve is fun fodder, and while I have major problems across the board with each - doesn't enter into the fact that for the purposes of this thread it's bag on Exxon-time.

Like I tell my 8 year old, I don't care what those kids are doing, what are YOU up to?!?

I don't think it's that complex.

As long as we keep buying the gas while we're complaining, the prices will go up.

"All the market will bear."

When we substantially change our habits, the price will stop going up.

People complain about the rising cost of pay per view boxing, but they keep paying to view. I tell them that if nobody paid to view the next big match, the powers that be would get the message.

If you have a product and can raise the price and sell the same amount, why wouldn't you?

jdanton · 05-03-2008, 07:12 AM

Just so I'm not misconstrued, I don't like the gas tax holiday, either.

What I really don't like is the impression or belief, that the federal government CAN do anything about gas prices.

It MAY be that if we get a democratic president the oil companies will lower prices a bit to avoid the possibility of legislation they don't like, but I wouldn't count on it.

CosmicRocker · 05-03-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

How does adding a tax of any kind to the oil companies bring the price at the pump down? Wouldn't they just pass that tax on to the consumer?

I was wondering about this too.
It looks like a raw materials tax. The campaign says it's a windfalls profit tax,
But Hillary wants to establish a baseline, above which the PROFITS would be taxed.

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