"it's all their fault I am leaving"... BBbbaahHHhhhhh - Page 11

Kana · 05-15-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

Manifest Destiney is not the same as building an empire.
We were carving out a nation - not colonizing

Are you saying there should not be a USA?

Wow... That explains a lot, I guess.

Here's a little history lesson. America started as a group of British colonies. British colonies, as in, the British Empire.

I've got to go, but again... Wow!

CosmicRocker · 05-15-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winthrop

Yes...yes, we pretty much were.

I beg to differ. how is establishing a nation - thru the only means available, the same as a territorial grab to expand an already existing nation?

we had to eastalish ourselves. we needed land. that is not the same thing as exapnding as Empire overseas.

Mithrall · 05-15-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

we threw off the yoke of tyrrany, we did not establish but a few colonies, and they were only temporary, and benign.

Tell that to the Native-Americans they displaced and introduced the wonders of small-pox to. Jeeze Cosmic, where do you get your history from?

CosmicRocker · 05-15-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithrall

Tell that to the Native-Americans they displaced and introduced the wonders of small-pox to. Jeeze Cosmic, where do you get your history from?

answered EXASTIVELY already.

The need for land - which there was NO OTHER WAY OF AQUIRING other than taking it; does not excuse the inhumane way we went on about it, in some cases.

To deny Manifest Destiney, is to deny the establishment of the USA.

would you prefer our nation never came into being??

winthrop · 05-15-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

I beg to differ. how is establishing a nation - thru the only means available, the same as a territorial grab to expand an already existing nation?

we had to eastalish ourselves. we needed land. that is not the same thing as exapnding as Empire overseas.

We wiped out several indigenous nations in the process.
We are here, we are going nowhere, our existence is a fait à compli.
However, we should have no illusions about our origins or their effects.

If we do not remember history we are doomed to repeat it; or at least
carry the same attitudes elsewhere, the Middle East, for example.

CosmicRocker · 05-15-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winthrop

We wiped out several indigenous nations in the process.
We are here, we are going nowhere, our existence is a fait à compli.
However, we should have no illusions about our origins or their effects.

If we do not remember history we are doomed to repeat it; or at least
carry the same attitudes elsewhere, the Middle East, for example.

that we did.
The question i am asking is, was it "moral" as others have asked me.

My response was, it was immoral in the manner we did it, but it was not immoral for us to establish a nation.

I don't think we really had a choice, the land had to be taken, i see no other way of doing it.

winthrop · 05-15-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

that we did.
The question i am asking is, was it "moral" as others have asked me.

My response was, it was immoral in the manner we did it, but it was not immoral for us to establish a nation.

I don't think we really had a choice, the land had to be taken, i see no other way of doing it.

Manifest Destiny all but required we take land by force, with displacement
of the indigenous peoples being, to many of our forebears, a simple inconvenience.
It was when it was, and the idea of fair compensation or negotiation
with non-white non-Christians was never a serious option in those times.
You are correct, it was immoral, then (although it was hardly considered so
at the time) and now. Now one would hope we would today do it
differently. Under this administration, though probably not.

The_Heretic · 05-15-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

Manifest Destiney is not the same as building an empire.
We were carving out a nation - not colonizing

Are you saying there should not be a USA?

The above is an example of white supremacy and genocidal lunacy.

BillCosby · 05-15-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

My response was, it was immoral in the manner we did it, but it was not immoral for us to establish a nation.

I don't think we really had a choice, the land had to be taken, i see no other way of doing it.

It was not immoral to establish a nation...lol SOunds benign enough.......

Not our fault we had no choice. It just had to be taken.....

Your statement avoids how they went about it.........

Establishing a nation @ the expense of Native Americans.......

Establishing a nation @ the expense of Native Hawaiians.......

Establishing a nation @ the expense of African Americans.......

Establishing a nation @ the expense of Mexico.......

I could go on but why........ You are unwilling to acknowledge anything......... & what I find quite sad is that it is intentional.... IMO you are a classic sheepl if ever I saw one.......

You will no more admit the usa has acted & does act in a manner reminiscent of all imperial powers than you would any other truth that does not fit your simple right wing justifications.........

michelemichele · 05-15-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

Manifest Destiney is not the same as building an empire.
We were carving out a nation - not colonizing

Are you saying there should not be a USA?

Um

((headdesk))

Cosmic. Indians, smallpox blankets, Mexico, War of 1812, Hawaii, Cuba, Spanish-American War (Phillippines), Cuba, Banana Republics, Cuba, Granada....

Dude.

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