Mithrall

Suppose your conscience tells you to beware of people who threaten to obliterate other countries? To beware of people who have the ability to lie about being under sniper fire with a smile on thier face, and then when caught, to painfully evolve that lie step by step until finally, weeks later, it becomes a "mistatement" due to lack of sleep. To beware of people who claim to be everything to all people. To beware of people who simply vote with the crowd and don't bother to learn the issues first. To beware of people who think that flags and flagpins are the ultimate symbols of patriotism. Suppose your conscience tells you that people who try to subvert the democratic process must not be rewarded?

HarperLee

You have described very eloquently why I could not vote for Hillary Clinton and why I might not be able to vote for Barack Obama if she is his running mate.

I might add the blatant hypocrisy: her telling Richard Mellon Scaife that she would have left Jeremiah Wright's church, knowing full
well that the MSM will not touch the D.C. prayer group The Fellowship, a/k/a The Family that she has belonged to for fifteen years -- or the fact that her former pastor was recently sentenced
for molesting a 7-year old girl. Her rank hypocrisy about Bill Ayers, when she has true associations with radicals in her past, not just a membership on the same conservative board. Her galling Sixty
Minutes disingenuous disclaimer that Obama is not a Muslim "as far as she knows." Her campaign's making Obama blacker in campaign flyers. Her
saying the name "Louis Farrakhan" at every opportunity, like someone with Tourette's syndrome.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that
after Super Tuesday, the Clintons realized their only chance to win this nomination was to play the race card. (The MSM gave little coverage to Bill Clinton's "Vote for me; I don't steal cars" or "Vote
for me; I don't rob banks.") We have fought too hard to come as far as we have in race relations in this country to have an impeached former president and his Machiavellian wife set us back.

And I could never in good conscience vote for anyone who pledged to obliterate a whole country.

I don't give a flying fuck if the Hillary Clinton supporters here vote for Obama. At last one is very dishonest and will undoubtedly be whining about Jeremiah Wright for the next four years. Another thinks that people who better themselves by getting an education --
which used to be the American dream, by the way -- are out of touch elitists.

__________________
When an intelligent, truthful man appears, he will be easily identified by the confederacy of dunces arrayed against him. Jonathan Swift

winthrop

All legitimate and good reasons to not vote for Ms. Clinton. There are equally ample reasons to not vote for John McCain.
For example, his embrace, literal and figurative, of the worst, most extraordinarily out of touch president in history, his embrace of radical religionists who long for supernatural genocide, his self professed cluelessness about the largest and arguably most important economy in the world, his enthusiasm for Scalia-and-Bork-type Supreme Court justices, his reversals on issues such as torture, his enthusiasm for a century of occupation in Iraq...the cliche is "need I go on".
The Republican Party as represented by Mr. McCain has as its proven, exercised policies many of the qualities with which you take issue in Ms. Clinton, who, remember, is running a campaign, not a country. Would she run the country any differently? Perhaps not, but we know her stated policies on Iraq, the economy and health care differ little from Mr. Obama's. We also know Mr. McCain's policies differ intensely from both Democratic candidates.
One must follow one's conscience, and hold one's head high. My conscience would not permit me to knowingly help, whether by direct action or inaction, elect a representative of a continuance of the past eight years of horror. But, that is my conscience, no one else's.

__________________
Countdown to The Great Bush-Out...
Meanwhile, panem et circenses!

Kana

But the contrasts between McCain's foreign policy and Hillary's are not stark, and if the two parties were actually two different parties, that would matter to more of you. There is little difference between Hillary's nuclear umbrella plan that would have us getting involved in wars in the Middle East for humanitarian reasons, and McCain's League of Democratic Nations that would have us getting involved in wars in the Middle East to spread democracy.

So your politicians would have us believe. I'll believe it when I see it.

The Office of the President has prestige? Sorry to break it to you, but few outside the US have respected your office of the Presidency in at least two decades. There is no prestige left to squander. The best for which you can hope is to earn some.

__________________
Groovyville

CosmicRocker

by Kana;

.

The nuclear umbrella is not a "humanitarian reason"

It's to ensure Iran knows that a nuclear first strike against ANY regional state -
including the Gulf, and Sunni States + Jordan, & Saudi Arabia ( also non -sunni like Iraq and Israel )
would be met with an in kind retaliation.

It also is a check on Iranian hegemony with their Shiite Crescent strategy.

It also helps stop Proliferation, since these states will not need their own program
```````````````````````````````````````````````

sad you don't respect the Office of the President.
I don't know how to respond to that.

__________________

"Hey now Baby, get into my big black car.
I wanna just show you, what my politics are"

"I'm a political man and I practice what I preach
So don't deny me baby, not while you're in my reach."

Politician - Cream

Kana

You could try telling me why the Office of the President of the United States is worthy of respect.

__________________
Groovyville

DRS112

Right....because if somebody threatens me with a gun there is no reason I'd want one myself....especially if that person has proven that they're prone to violence by beating up my neighbors.


It was the most IGNORANT statement she could have ever made....if Bush had said the same thing you would have been all over it....

But it's okay...she's a democrat who just happens to be the candidate you support....so that makes it okay....

Kana

This is my problem with Democrats. I honestly think most of them only oppose the War in Iraq because the guy who started it puts an (R) after his name. They don't oppose the principle of military interventionism; they just oppose people with (R)s after their names.

I suggest we merge the letters R and D into a single letter. That way, all the RepublicanDemocrats would have (RD) after their names, and we could stop pretending we have two parties.

__________________
Groovyville

Kana

She is offering to get involved in wars in the Middle East to protect the populations of those countries. That is a humanitarian rationale for war. If her motives aren't humanitarian, then what are they?

We have been involved in the Middle East since the end of WWI. We have been issuing threats this way and that way ever since. It didn't stop nuclear proliferation. If anything, it made acquisition of nuclear arsenals more urgent for Middle Eastern countries. Hillary's sabre rattling isn't any different and won't be any more effective.

And really, your post just reinforces my assertion that there is little difference between Hillary and McCain on foreign policy. Both would have us acting as the global cops in charge of the Middle East. I suppose the most stark difference between Hillary and McCain is that McCain isn't a Chickenhawk.

__________________
Groovyville

CosmicRocker

you wouldn't need gun if there was a cop on the corner, standing by day and night, to use ur analogy.
USA is the cop, to take it to the next step ,again using your analogy.

Oh please, " Hillary is Bush" etc. is such a useless partisian Obama stance.
It's just an attempt by Obamaites to marginalize her, with out substance or merit.

I laid it out as clearly, and as step by step as I could for you.
Why would I change the logic, if it was a Bush proposal?

I just look for a good idea - bush or Obama, or Hillary.

Obama wouls be a nice face of change for the world.
A progessive example of post racial politics -I give him that as his due

But so would Hillary as a woman -albeit to a lesser extent.

I criticize Obma simply on a foreign policy stance

__________________

"Hey now Baby, get into my big black car.
I wanna just show you, what my politics are"

"I'm a political man and I practice what I preach
So don't deny me baby, not while you're in my reach."

Politician - Cream