Rant I don't Like Hillary Clinton's support of Federal Same Sex Civil Unions - Page 2

Kana · 05-15-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

All of the candidates are Christians. How can they reconcile gay marriage with their Christian beliefs?

None of them would be required to get married to someone of the same sex. They can reconcile gay marriage with their Christian beliefs by minding their own business, and making sure the government minds its own business, as well.

Environment Man · 05-15-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgtr

It's a simple as ignoring the fact that we don't live in a time set in BC. Nothing wrong with the bible but even the best manuals get updated to reflect advancements. We can't be expected to live by stone age rules. Richter is right, in time this will become an acceptable event as we progress.

Then you have absolutely no understanding of Christians or Christianity. We will no more support gay marriage than we will fornication. Ever. Unless God changes up at some point, but I do not believe that that was his plan. ALL of the candidates are Christians and this is the basis of their opposition too.

serum114 · 05-15-2008, 06:41 PM

Makes you wonder if Oboma gets elected if he would change his mind.

Environment Man · 05-15-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kana

None of them would be required to get married to someone of the same sex. They can reconcile gay marriage with their Christian beliefs by minding their own business, and making sure the government minds its own business, as well.

Not when it comes to public policy. They CAN render unto Caesar except when it is in opposition to God's law. You can hate it but it is the basis of their opposition to gay marriage. Christians have the same rights to express and vote for their beliefs as gay people do.

America IS a Christian nation so it will never approve gay marriage. Note that the state legislatures act and place referenda on the ballot to block activist judges. Such will be the case in Cali.

EvilMonkey · 05-15-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Then you have absolutely no understanding of Christians or Christianity. We will no more support gay marriage than we will fornication. Ever. Unless God changes up at some point, but I do not believe that that was his plan. ALL of the candidates are Christians and this is the basis of their opposition too.

Here are a few things the bible states, how many Christians live by these standards today?

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

Like or not, progress will happen and many good Christians realize the difference between being fanatics and being realistic.

Environment Man · 05-15-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Zaius

Gavin Newsome endorsed Hillary Clinton and he is a Super Delegate I believe.

Newsome May run for Governor of California in 2 years.

So Newsome is politicking. Just like Willie Brown did and Jerry Brown. Their is a large gay population in California and they are pandering to it. I guess he figures if he can get latinos, blacks, gays (the traditional liberal dem coalition then he can win).

It is why Arnold is being careful. He wants to run for the Senate against Boxer.

Richterscale · 05-15-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Environment Man

Christian principles are not going to change in 10 years or 10,000 years.

Quote:

“Christian Principles in an Election Year”
Offer Criteria for Judging Candidates

Study guide at: 'Christian Principles in an Election Year' Study Guide
"Christian Principles" Inspire New Hymn! Click here to read about it and to download the hymn

July 14, 2004, NEW YORK CITY - The National Council of Churches USA has released 10 principles for evaluating candidates that it hopes all Christians - from liberals to conservatives - will study and apply in this election year.

These “Christian Principles in an Election Year” apply well-established ecumenical principles to both domestic and foreign policy issues, and address issues of war, poverty, immigration, education, health care, racial justice, distress in U.S. inner cities and rural communities, the environment and the criminal justice system. They urge domestic policies that build “communities shaped by peace and cooperation” and a foreign policy “based on cooperation and global justice.”

“This is an important voice in the public conversation about where this nation should be headed,” said the Rev. Dr. Michael Kinnamon, who chairs the NCC’s Justice and Advocacy Commission. That multi-denominational Commission developed the principles, which then were affirmed by the NCC’s Executive Committee. “The principles are not intended to be partisan, but rather to lift up common principles that have been affirmed ecumenically and that can provide guidance in this election season.”

Neither are these principles meant to be exhaustive of all concerns, Dr. Kinnamon said. “There are other issues on which some Justice and Advocacy Commission members wanted to speak and that Roman Catholics and conservative evangelical Christians might add, but on which churches aren’t united - among them, abortion and gay marriage. For us, the issue is how to begin a conversation in the pews. We proclaim with a bold humility that this is where we stand right now, even as we invite others into the conversation.”

A number of the principles have roots in ecumenical agreements that date back more than 50 years, noted Dr. Kinnamon, a Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) minister and professor at Eden Theological Seminary in St. Louis, Mo. For example, the first principle, “War is contrary to the will of God,” was affirmed at the World Council of Churches’ founding assembly in 1948. “It’s not a pacifist position,” he said, “but it says ‘no’ to crusade. It acknowledges that ‘while the use of force may, at times, be a necessity of last resort, Christ pronounces his blessing on the peacemakers.”

Other principles echo such “key principles of the whole ecumenical movement” as the interrelatedness of all people, God’s priority concern for the poor, the infinite worth of each person as created in the image of God, and the God-given responsibility to be stewards of God’s creation, Dr. Kinnamon said.

Commented the Rev. Dr. Robert W. Edgar, a United Methodist minister and former member of the U.S. Congress who is NCC General Secretary, “Elections are an opportunity for education of voters, communities and churches around what civic responsibility is. We believe in the separation of church and state, but not in the separation of people of faith from institutions of government. We believe people of faith need to be involved in the political process, be registered, and vote with a sense of empowerment and conscience. We hope these principles will help them.”

Said the Rev. Dr. Thomas L. Hoyt, Jr., of Shreveport, La., Bishop of the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church’s Fourth District and NCC President, “We hope churches will post these principles on bulletin boards, include them in the church bulletin, and use them in Bible study groups, young people’s forums and senior citizen meetings. We hope the principles will help people enter into dialogue and be ‘Spirit-filled voters’ who don’t just get stirred up about emotional hot-button issues but also keep sight of all the other issues like racism, poverty and issues of peace and justice,” Dr. Hoyt said.

The principles address not only the issues but also the conduct of campaigns, asking candidates to “refrain from using faith-based organizations and institutions for partisan gain” and urging that “the campaigns of political candidates and the coverage of the media in this election season be conducted according to principles of fairness, honesty and integrity.”

The full text of “Christian Principles in an Election Year” follows. A study guide to the principles is available on this Web site at: 'Christian Principles in an Election Year' Study Guide

Quote:

Christian Principles in an Election Year

Our Christian faith compels us to address the world through the lens of our relationship to God and to one another. Public discourse is enhanced as we engage civic leaders on the values and ethics affirmed by our faith. At the same time, religious liberty and the integrity of our democracy will be protected as candidates refrain from using faith-based organizations and institutions for partisan gain. We offer these ten principles to those seeking to accept the responsibility that comes with holding public office.

1. War is contrary to the will of God. While the use of violent force may, at times, be a necessity of last resort, Christ pronounces his blessing on the peacemakers. We look for political leaders who will make peace with justice a top priority and who will actively seek nonviolent solutions to conflict.

2. God calls us to live in communities shaped by peace and cooperation. We reject policies that abandon large segments of our inner city and rural populations to hopelessness. We look for political leaders who will re-build our communities and bring an end to the cycles of violence and killing.

3. God created us for each other, and thus our security depends on the well-being of our global neighbors. We look for political leaders for whom a foreign policy based on cooperation and global justice is an urgent concern.

4. God calls us to be advocates for those who are most vulnerable in our society. We look for political leaders who yearn for economic justice and who will seek to reduce the growing disparity between rich and poor.

5. Each human being is created in the image of God and is of infinite worth. We look for political leaders who actively promote racial justice and equal opportunity for everyone.

6. The earth belongs to God and is intrinsically good. We look for political leaders who recognize the earth's goodness, champion environmental justice, and uphold our responsibility to be stewards of God’s creation.

7. Christians have a biblical mandate to welcome strangers. We look for political leaders who will pursue fair immigration policies and speak out against xenophobia.

8. Those who follow Christ are called to heal the sick. We look for political leaders who will support adequate, affordable and accessible health care for all.

9. Because of the transforming power of God’s grace, all humans are called to be in right relationship with each other. We look for political leaders who seek a restorative, not retributive, approach to the criminal justice system and the individuals within it.

10. Providing enriched learning environments for all of God’s children is a moral imperative. We look for political leaders who will advocate for equal educational opportunity and abundant funding for children’s services.

Finally, our religious tradition admonishes us not to bear false witness against our neighbor and to love our enemies. We ask that the campaigns of political candidates and the coverage of the media in this election season be conducted according to principles of fairness, honesty and integrity.

-end-

How curious that none of these 'principles' concern homosexuality or abortion...

Equally curious that Churches seem to be divided on thse two issues, considering your statement that Christian Principles never change.

Which principles are you referring to? Do you have a different list to share with us?

Jonesy · 05-15-2008, 06:47 PM

The only reason religion survives is because it brainwashes children. The internet is already hostile to religion. It will only get worse.

Go ahead, religious people... don't teach your children religion until they are 18 or older. You will see, religion will die.

Environment Man · 05-15-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgtr

Here are a few things the bible states, how many Christians live by these standards today?

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

Like or not, progress will happen and many good Christians realize the difference between being fanatics and being realistic.

Adultery allows for divorce. It is the only reason. The others I could live with. In fact, society would be better off for it. I don't see anything in there that is too bad. That last one is interesting though. Why in the world would a woman grab the enemy's genitals? That sure would be incentive for her to not do that.

The Bible is the law and Caesar's laws should mirror it. Now you can hate me but dont forget that ALL of the candidates believe the Bible is the word of God.

Environment Man · 05-15-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richterscale

How curious that none of these 'principles' concern homosexuality or abortion...

Equally curious that Churches seem to be divided on thse two issues, considering your statement that Christian Principles never change.

Which principles are you referring to? Do you have a different list to share with us?

The Bible speaks clearly and directly about homosexuality. It is unambiguous. Admittedly humans have various beliefs in Christianity but some are pretty clear. For instance on fornication, adultery, homosexuality. There is nothing special about homosexuality. It is just another of the activities that God prohibits. Hell I would probably like to fuck right now but I do not. I want to please God. Would like some bacon too. And lobster.

05-15-2008, 06:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
serum114 Tonight? We make soap Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Starlight On the Rails Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 25 Thanked 143 Times in 85 Posts	Makes you wonder if Oboma gets elected if he would change his mind. __________________ The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. Hunter S. Thompson
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05-15-2008, 06:47 PM	#18 (permalink)
Jonesy Truth Lion Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,554 Thanks: 10 Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts	The only reason religion survives is because it brainwashes children. The internet is already hostile to religion. It will only get worse. Go ahead, religious people... don't teach your children religion until they are 18 or older. You will see, religion will die.
	Top

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