winthrop

This is similar to a discussion on the Maher board when Mr. Obama
stated he would favor sending troops into Pakistan if there was proof
bin Laden and Al Qaeda operatives were in a specific place at a specific
time (a decidedly high threshold).

I defended that position against a few who insisted on morphing his
statement into favoring a full scale Iraq-style invasion of Pakistan,
complete with the removal of Musharraf, which it was not.

Now we see Ms. Clinton's comment, based on a possible response to
an unlikely situation, turned into a unilateral, unprovoked bloodlusting
call for destruction.

War is the most abhorrent of foreign policy failures, and we as a species
must turn from it if we are at survive.
This requires everyone coming to this conclusion, however, and
primitive lizard brains still dominate humanity.

__________________
Countdown to The Great Bush-Out...
Meanwhile, panem et circenses!

anhailla

excellent post Winthrop...but I would say this,

I am wary of having any military strike in Pakistan without the Pakistan's permission, regardless of Al Qaeda's presence. I actually went against Obama's statement at the time.

In an ideal world we strengthen relations with Pakistan and they in turn, continue to provide us with information about extremists.

your right in pointing out they were both hypothetical statements... I just feel that Iran seeking to "obliterate" Israel with nuclear weapons poses more of a threat to the world than Al Qaeda's presence in Pakistan.

__________________
...either I go, or that wallpaper does.

Oscar Wilde

winthrop

The nuclear element certainly changes the dynamic, and if a seemingly
belligerent statement prevents fools from acting foolishly, then better
talk now than cleaning up a nuclear wasteland later.

On another note, I wonder if Mr. Biden (who we may remember once
celebrated Mr. Obama's cleanliness) is considered such a "magnificent
bastard" with this support of Ms. Clinton's statement...or just a "bastard".

__________________
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DRS112

Untrue...the response is in disgust of her response that mimicks our current ham handed foreign policy/diplomacy.

anhailla

I like Biden...I like Obama and I defend Hiliary's response and would have voted for her had she won the nomination.


It's too bad no one talked about the rest of what Biden said. It was an overwhelming pro-diplomacy stance and more of a attack on Bush and his continuation of the "boogey man is going to get you" rhetoric.
It was Chris Matthews who brought up Hiliary's statement, not Biden.

Biden defended her (as well as Obama) and he should have.

__________________
...either I go, or that wallpaper does.

Oscar Wilde

winthrop

I disagree, since Ms. Clinton gives her harsh warning (which, I should
add, does not please me) as what would happen if Iran acted in such a
fashion itself, first.

Mr. Bush and his neo-con swine are chafing at the opportunity to
invade Iran on any rationale, true or false, up to and including for the
hell of it.
That is ham-handed.

We definitely need and want a change from the arrogance and stupidity
of the Bush/Cheney clusterfuck, but we should not be seen in this
dangerous world as going too far in the other direction to passivity in
the face of devastating threats. Those lizard brains are still out there.

__________________
Countdown to The Great Bush-Out...
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RK77

OH PLEASE!!! When Matthews tried to discern if he agreed with the policy he QUICKLY changed the subject! Can't you EVER be relied on to tell the whole truth??

Or were you confused by the use of the term rational?

ra·tion·al (rsh-nl)
adj.
1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
2. Of sound mind; sane.
3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See Synonyms at logical.
4. Mathematics Capable of being expressed as a quotient of integers.
n. Mathematics
A rational number.


Something can be "rational" and not prefered, indicated, or something one would choose.

DRS112

ummm...soo you're going to tell me...that there wouldn't have been FAR more appropriate/diplomatic responses? cuz I could give you a dozen off the top of my head if need be.

winthrop

I like Biden as well, and I thought he was the most intelligent and prepared
of any of the candidates. As I noted in my response to DRS, the fear-
mongering, irresponsible actions (not just hypothetical talk) of
the Bush Cabal must be replaced with just what you describe, a
diplomacy based approach to solving political differences, as should
be the policy of a civilized nation seeking to build a better world,
instead of a greed based empire.

__________________
Countdown to The Great Bush-Out...
Meanwhile, panem et circenses!

anhailla

Absolutely agreed.

__________________
...either I go, or that wallpaper does.

Oscar Wilde