Time to put ego to bed and support the nominee - Page 16

RK77 · 05-21-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarperLee

I am going to start a thread entitled "Facts about Michigan and
Florida primary vote" so we won't have to keep posting the same
information.

Two oldies, but goodies:

From Washington Post, October 11, 2007:

Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Rodham Clinton said it would be foolish to take her name off Michigan's primary ballot and sacrifice her chances against the Republican nominee.

As the only top tier Democrat remaining on Michigan ballot, Clinton is all but guaranteed to win the state's primary. Michigan is tentatively slated to send 156 delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention, but national party officials have threatened to take away those delegates if the state persists in holding its primary on Jan. 15.

"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," Clinton said Thursday during an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio's call-in program, "The Exchange." "But I just personally did not want to set up a situation where the Republicans are going to be campaigning between now and whenever, and then after the nomination, we have to go in and repair the damage to be ready to win Michigan in 2008."

Speaking in the first primary state, Clinton said she understands concerns about her refusal. Rivals Barack Obama, John Edwards, Bill Richardson and Joe Biden took their names off Michigan's Jan. 15 primary ballot this week, and Michigan's hope for nominating clout all but evaporated.

Entire article: Clinton Defends Michigan Ballot Stand

And, Terry McAuliff on Meet the Press, May 11, 2008:

Russert has just mentioned McAuliffe's
book What a Party and quotes from it:

MR. RUSSERT: And back in 2003, this was a discussion...

MR. McAULIFFE: Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: ...you had with Carl Levin, the senator from Michigan.

MR. McAULIFFE: Yeah. Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: "I got a call on February 1, 2003, from Carl [Levin]" ... senator from Michigan, "[who] told me they were going to hold the Michigan primary before New Hampshire, which would have led to complete chaos. ... `If you do that, I will take away 50 percent of your delegates,' I told them. They thought I was bluffing. But it was my responsibility as chairman to take action for the good of the party, and taking away half their delegates was well within my authority. ... `You won't deny us seats at the convention,' [Levin] said. `Carl, take it to the bank.'" They'll "`not get a credential. The closest'" thing you'll "`get to Boston,'" the convention city, "`will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules.'"

MR. McAULIFFE: Yep.

MR. RUSSERT: Chairman McAuliffe.

MR. McAULIFFE: You bet.

MR. RUSSERT: So now, Chairman Dean is saying the rules are the rules.

MR. McAULIFFE: Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: Michigan broke them, they're not going to be seated. Maybe they'll get half. Would you accept that?

MR. McAULIFFE: Well, first of all, that's now out in paperback, I want you to know. But second, I would say the rule is 50 percent. That's the point I'd like to make. I had the right, the party, to take away 50 percent. The party took away 100 percent of the delegates. The rule is 50 percent. Had they only taken away 50 percent like the Republican Party did, Tim, you and I would not be having this conversation today.

MR. RUSSERT: So you would accept that as a compromise, half the Michigan and half the Florida delegates?

MR. McAULIFFE: We certainly might, you bet. But in fairness, the Rules and Bylaws Committee will meet on, on the 31st to make that decision. The issue is 50 percent. They took away 100 percent. He can't deny that a million-75 people showed up in Florida and 600,000 showed up in Michigan. They voted, they were certified by the county and the state. These people voted. We have to win these two states in, in the general election. It's important, Michigan and Florida.

MR. RUSSERT: But you'd take half.

MR. McAULIFFE: Well, I'll--we'll let the Rules and Bylaws, it's up to them to make that decision. But the rule is 50 percent. Had they done 50 percent, Tim, you and I wouldn't have this conversation today. They took away 100 percent.
------------------------------------------------------------

OH----

It gets MUCH better than this!

Here is what Thurman said to a paper the day after the punishment was determined (day 1 of the 30 days they had to submit a corrective plan).

"Florida's state party chair, Karen L. Thurman, showed no signs of backing down yesterday. The former congresswoman said she will consult with state Democrats but added that she expects all the presidential candidates to ignore the national party's edict and campaign vigorously in advance of the Sunshine State's primary.

"Whether you get a delegate or don't get a delegate, a vote is a vote," a defiant Thurman said. "That is what Floridians are going to say is important."

source

*******************************************
By the way---the ONLY member of the Rules committee to vote against the loss of Fla delegates was Allen Katz---an OBAMA supporter!

"The attractiveness of not having to spend $5- or $10-million in Florida has not gone unnoticed in some quarters," said Allan Katz of Tallahassee, a Barack Obama supporter and the only member of the DNC rules committee to vote with Florida Saturday."

source

*******************************************
AND............

A week before their time was up they were leaking to the WaPo that they did not give a shit!

Fla. Democrats Set to Stick to Jan. 29 Vote

By Brendan Farrington
Associated Press
Sunday, September 23, 2007; Page A15

TALLAHASSEE, Sept. 22 -- The Florida Democratic Party will stick with a Jan. 29 presidential primary even if it means losing all its nominating convention delegates, a party source said Saturday.

The Democratic National Committee voted last month to strip Florida of its 210 delegates if the state party held a primary before Feb. 5, but it gave state officials until next Saturday to come up with an alternative delegate selection plan, such as caucuses or a vote-by-mail primary, to stay within DNC rules.

But state party leadership has rejected that course, the source said, after a poll of executive committee members found at least 75 percent support for the early primary. The source spoke on the condition of anonymity because executive committee members were still being notified of the state party's stance.

State party Chairman Karen L. Thurman, members of the congressional delegation and state legislative leaders scheduled a news conference for Sunday to announce their position.

"On Jan. 29, 2.5 million Floridians are going to go to the polls, and that's more telling than any caucus in Iowa," said Miami-Dade County Democratic Party Chairman Joe Garcia. "We'll be damned for it by some, but I think we're doing the right thing."

Broward County state committeewoman Diane Glasser, who also serves as state party first chair, said that she is fine with the decision, as long as delegates are selected in case they are permitted to attend the convention in Denver next summer.

"I'm not concerned with the DNC," she said.

Democratic Party rules say states cannot hold their 2008 primary contests before Feb. 5, except for Iowa on Jan. 14, Nevada on Jan. 19, New Hampshire on Jan. 22 and South Carolina on Jan. 29.

Phone calls and e-mails to the DNC were not immediately returned.

*******************************************
Here is an excerpt from the letter that Florida wrote to the DNC Rules and Bylaws committee in response to having been given 30 days to remediate or lose their delegates.

On 23 September 2007 the Florida Democrats responded:

"After months of careful deliberations, your Party's leaders have chosen overwhelmingly to reaffirm our strong commitment to fully participating in the state-run Democratic Presidential Primary on January 29, 2008, despite the penalties from the Democratic National Committee. ....

Sincerely,
Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chairwoman, Florida Democratic Party"

Source

*******************************************

There must be something in the water in Florida----these snarky remarks are so "Cosmic" of them!

RK77 · 05-21-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

I was on the lines, towards the back.
The national guard broke thru and scattered us.

I ran thru some buildings.
Guardsman came thru with horses first.

AFTER the guardsman reared up with his club, but saw me covering my head,he realized i was in a defensive position, and turned his mount and trotted off. I crapped my pants,and I jumped into a stairwell.
Laid there till the riot was over.

I was on the lines - not the front, but there as a protestor.

I only answer you RK to put the facts straight.
The rest of your RantKween antics, I ignore.

Do you even know what you were protesting? All Nam protests were not just stop the war! MOST of them focused quite clearly around very specific issues with the war.

What group organized the protest?

RK77 · 05-21-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

Didn't say she hates America, but she obviously wasn't " really proud" beforehand.
I don't know how else you can say she was "really proud" beforehand, if she clearly stated this was the " first time"

But you are really, really proud of America everyday aren't you----why? You are riding on the backs of the contributions of literally millions of other people who actually contributing something to the nation.

What does a low life like you have to be proud of?

CosmicRocker · 05-21-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK77

Do you even know what you were protesting? All Nam protests were not just stop the war! MOST of them focused quite clearly around very specific issues with the war.

What group organized the protest?

what do i know? I was all of 14, and one of the guys I hung with said
there was a big demonstration planned that night in College Park, Md. - he heard about it from a student there.

Told my parents I was staying at a friends house or some such lie

I jumped in the car and "went down to the demonstration to get my fair share of abuse" ( Stones)

RK77 · 05-21-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

what do i know? I was all of 14, and one of the guys I hung with said
there was a big demonstration planned that night in College Park, Md. - he heard about it from a student there.

Told my parents I was staying at a friends house or some such lie

I jumped in the car and "went down to the demonstration to get my fair share of abuse" ( Stones)

Just what I said----you weren't a protester you were an idiot lookie loo! For you to think this MEANS something is DESPICABLE!!

Do you know that people DIED committed to ending that war? Have you ever heard of Kent State? How dare you disrespect the efforts made by people to end that war at the risk of their lives by likening HANGING OUT WITH A FRIEND to being a protester!

Jesus Christ----you are a wannabe EVERYTHING!

CosmicRocker · 05-21-2008, 08:55 PM

denigrate anyone's efforts to stop the war, and you denigrate everyone involved.

I didn't go to party, i went down as matter of consciousness, as much as a 14 year old can have one.
This was no joyride.

My best friend's brother was drafted, and split to Canada.
He was divorced from his family and the usa, during that time.
Bear in mind that at 14, older folks were involved directly.
at my age, it was not a matter of being drafted.

I knew a few things about world history, but i was not really that savvy.
I just knew we had no business in SE Asia, and I did my part, which was more than most 14 year olds did at that time.

I could have lied here to make myself a big shot, but I'm telling the truth.
Yes i respect those who did more, but this was about the most i could do.

I didn't see anyone nearly as young as me, and I'm not trying to paint myself as some nobel demonstrator.
I did the best i could, and I'm glad I went. It was an eye opener.

ppatt · 05-21-2008, 10:07 PM

I knew you would JD, just as I would have if things had ended up differently.

I am not so certain about some of the other more strident Obama supporters on the board.

My situation is somewhat unique in that my wife voted for Hillary. I can't afford taking cheap shots at Hillary or her supporters primarily because she knows when I sleep, if you know what I mean

.

My wife had reservations about Obama precisely for the same reasons I chose Edwards over Obama. So I understood her point of view just as I have understood and respected yours throughout this ordeal. Those reservations about Obama were just not enough to overcome the reservations about Hillary.

...but I do understand that a choice between individuals is not always one of right or wrong but of preference. Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one. They aren't straight from God or anything like that.

RK77 · 05-22-2008, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicRocker

denigrate anyone's efforts to stop the war, and you denigrate everyone involved.

I didn't go to party, i went down as matter of consciousness, as much as a 14 year old can have one.
This was no joyride.

My best friend's brother was drafted, and split to Canada.
He was divorced from his family and the usa, during that time.
Bear in mind that at 14, older folks were involved directly.
at my age, it was not a matter of being drafted.

I knew a few things about world history, but i was not really that savvy.
I just knew we had no business in SE Asia, and I did my part, which was more than most 14 year olds did at that time.

I could have lied here to make myself a big shot, but I'm telling the truth.
Yes i respect those who did more, but this was about the most i could do.

I didn't see anyone nearly as young as me, and I'm not trying to paint myself as some nobel demonstrator.
I did the best i could, and I'm glad I went. It was an eye opener.

Children were not unusual in protest marches and many -- younger than you---had a wealth of knowledge. The fact that you did not see them ---or would make the assumption that they were not participants speaks volumes about your awareness.

And no---calling you out for what you are does not denigrate everyone else. How absurd.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and the fact that you went to protest something that you did not care enough about to inform yourself about is not at all impressive.

Frankly it is rather pathetic. It was not the MOST you could do. You could read and write could you not? Offering an alibi for ignorance disgusts me. Laziness of this caliber is nauseating.

Moreover, this total loser mentality of wanting to get some sort of kudos for telling the truth is beyond pitiful. Do you have any concept of the fact that most decent human beings make it a practice to attempt to tell the truth AT ALL TIMES?

I can but imagine the moral degradation of a person who finds it noteworthy enough to mention doing something that should be reflexive. Do you want credit for breathing in and out too?

CosmicRocker · 05-22-2008, 07:45 AM

Children were not common in armed protests, where you KNEW
( by shutting down US-1 in this case) the shit was gonna fly.
I'm fairly certain i was the youngest there, on my own and wthout parents.

When I say I was " uniformed" I knew the history of Vietnam, and the SEATO treaty organizations requirements.

But i was late in coming against the war, maybe 1967 did it for me.

I went to a Catholic School, and my parents were lifelong Dem's, so until LBJ was completey discredited,
my natural inclination was to support his policy as a Dem. So my worldview was still fairly simplistic until then.

I did a lot of conscious raising between '67 to '69, as I got exposed to underground papers.
I became radicalized ( as much as a 14 year old could be), and started dope in 68.

But I was still a kid, and I didn't understand MacArthur's reasoning about why we shouldn't get into land war in Asia.
Jane Fonda and company operated on a higher moral plane, which I understood as I left grade school.
But I'm satisfied I did what I could , when I could for my particular age.
At least I did get out there, and became editor of my High School paper,
and began to write and recruit others my age who were just getting their consciousness raised.

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