winthrop

In the same way this is:

__________________
Countdown to The Great Bush-Out...
Meanwhile, panem et circenses!

Insipid

If I didn't know she has me on ignore, i'd swear she set about to prove my point. I don't see how i could of argued it better myself.

Talk about your violent femmes.

RK77

Quite true!! In addition to the FACT that neither Hillary NOR Obama have EVER said that you could buy a plan SIMILAR to that of Congressmen! Does the dolt get the difference between similar to and the same as-----apparently NOT!

NOT TO MENTION---the plan they have is NOT getting them the care they get! The doctors they have access to is what is determining the quality and success of their care!

So what if you have the same insurance plan if you live in rural anywhere and there ARE not world class physicians in your local 12 bed hospital!

Anyone so demented as to think that the quality of their care is dependent on the type of insurance they have is brain dead enough that they should not be voting, or driving or posting!

As for the diatribe about Englands health care---ONLY AN TOTAL IDIOT evaluates the costs of different countries health services without giving any consideration to the vast cultural differences that impact the usage of those services! DUH!!!

In the USA 60 year olds almost routinely receive renal transplants---for example---our culture informs us that renal failure is not a reason to allow a person to die. In England's system the patient nor their families nor the system would consider transplantation at age 60 a priority---the procedure is private pay or a certain age there.

This sort of simplistic understanding and analysis of damn near EVERYTHING explains why Hillary got the votes of the less educated! Bumper sticker slogans were complex and impressive to them.

The only "mandate" is that government make it available. You don't have to pay into if you don't work AND you don't have to accept it --- it is an option.

I have already spelled out why medicare is not a mandate. Someone quote it so the loon can stop pretending he hasn't read it.

To quote Paul Krugman, a marginalized freak who has already sacrificed ALL his journalistic credibility due to his inability to even APPEAR unbiased is evidence that the Hillho's are forever doomed to relive silly season!

NOTE he claims research has JUST become available---where is the link to that?

The assessment that UNIVERSAL INSURANCE will not occur has nothing to to with UNIVERSAL CARE! Hundreds of thousands of people receive care right now without any insurance whatsoever.

The ONLY thing that Hillary (or Krugman) are pushing is the universal involvement of people with the insurance industry! AND NO it could not be more untrue that this will save costs.

The costs of processing billing and collecting from those who do not receive care---is not being estimated.

The costs of enforcing the mandates is not being estimated (ESPECIALLY given that the Hillho REFUSED to identify how she would enforce the mandates telling This Weeks Stephanopolis that the congress would have to figure that out for her).

Yes it beats the HELL out of S-Chip which is underfunded and killing the states and not doing anything for kids really.

WHAT IS THE COSTS OF ADMINISTRATING THE MANDATE NATIONALLY!! Only the truly INSIPID think that it costs nothing to enforce!

Nasty is just an excuse these folks are using!

Anyone who comes to this board and writes shit like:

Insipid

Well, if i need to find something 100% analogous to make comparisons, then i'm out of luck because there is nothing analogous to Hillary OR Barack's plan to make comparisons. If i were the mean spirited sort, i would say your comparisons to the mandates for health care to mandates for car insurance to be something a TOTAL IDIOT would say. As the insistence that Hillary's health care plan is identical to Romney's.


I actually didn't know that it was possible to opt out of Social Security and medicare. I had to ask a H.r. block associate about this. So i guess you educated me on this. So i'm forced to actually have to thank you for that. But for all practical purposes, it is a mandate to 95 + % of the people as very few opt out of the social security and medicare medicaid programs because they want them in their old age. It also IS a mandate for employers to pay THEIR contributions each month, so there is some mandate involved. I'd been an employer for 5 years and an employee for 25 and i didn't even know it was possible for individuals to opt out. I'm sure most people don't. This is different then a health insurance program which cannot refuse people when they get sick. People will opt out when they're healthy and opt in when they're sick. As Ezra Klein pointed out, he'll either have to enforce mandates or

First off, of course he doesn't try to pretend to be unbiased, he's an opinion columnist for goodness sakes. He's paid to be subjective, not objective.

Furthermore, you're in bad shape if you want to play a game of duling columnists. On my side i have the likes of Paul Krugman and Ezra Klein two people that were very right in 2000 and on your side you have Frank Rich, Maureen Dowd and Andrew Sullivan. The first two you can thank DIRECTLY for making sure we got Al Gore in the first place. Maureen Dowd, who's now a liberal star was the one who made up out of whole cloth the whole Naomi Klein talking points and had SIX columns featuring Al Gore talking to his bald spot. She also did a nice little number on John Kerry and i have little doubt that she'll sissyfi Obama before she's done. Emasculating democrats is her favorite trick. Then there's Frank Rich who doesn't really love Obama, just hates Clinton, who made up the whole Love Story lie out of whole cloth and was a chief proponent of the now absurd line that there was no difference between Gore and Bush. He didn't give up his Gore hate either, when an Inconvenient truth came out the son of a bitch insisted that it was an elaborate re-election bid on his part. These two were particularly damaging because they're seen, for some strange reason, as liberals so they had more credibility with Democrats. Anne Coulter on her BEST day could only dream to do 1/10 the damage to the Democrats Maureen Dowd and Frank Rich have done.

Yes, the cost of administering the program WAS estimated to be about 110 billion a year. Just as there are estimated costs of Baracks program.

He did give the name of the study and who did the study. It's certainly possible to research it without him providing a link. I think, as a general rule columnists for the NY times don't provide links on the site. I don't think i've ever seen a link from dowd or rich either.

There was a time, perhaps you're too young to remember it, where people actually didn't have links at all. People read things in objects called books and they sited sources and you actually had to go throught the bother of looking it up yourself. I know, stone age.

There are also elements that Obama is leaving for congress to decide as well. There's nothing wrong or unusual to leave details of particular plans for Congress to work through. It happens all the time.


First off, i did not lose. The only way i'll have lost is if McCain get in in November. I'm a democrat first and foremost (unlike your pal, Heretic who also claimed there was no difference between Gore and Bush). I will donate to Barack's campaign, i will make phone calls for Barack, i will celebrate with you and everyone else when he is our 44th president. While i do have some issues with his health care stance, this is mild compared to the issues i have with McCain's. Furthermore, progressives CERTAINLY have more of a chance of changing his mind then McCain's. As he said (and these words were mana from heaven to my ears) "I'm a reasonable man and i am open to reason."

If other former Hillary supporters called people cult followers, i appologize for that. But i haven't done that. I On the whole, i try to be civil. Sometimes i fail because health care is an issue i feel very strongly about for personal reasons. But i do try. For those times i've let loose an Obamabot or some other nonsense, i do admit i was wrong.

You don't even try to be civil. Which is something i don't understand because you DO seem like an intelligent woman who is knowledgeable about quite a lot. It's possible you could actually persuade people or at least have a chance of persuading people if you'd just stop with the ad hominem attacks all the time. I refuse to believe you're insane enough to actually truly hate me. You don't know me. I'm just type on a message board to you.

Let's imagine i'm wrong and ezra klein is wrong and Paul Krugman is wrong and the millions of others are ALL wrong and you're right. Fine. Do you ACTUALLY believe we're ALL liars and deviants and evil people intent on doing harm? That's a pretty bizarre belief structure if that is what you think.

Anyway, i probably won't respond to you in the future. 1. I really don't like having garbage hurled at me and 2. You have me on ignore so i'd have to rely on people cutting and pasting in order for you to reply to me.

If you're going to ignore me though, i wish you'd hold to your convictions and not take pot shots at me all the time. But i suppose that's asking too much.