Today on the campaign trail (AP) - Page 2

Environment Man · 08-03-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgtr

That or anti Obama. But he's made that reference so many times here in the past that is how I take it. Be your own judge though man, to each his own.

Okay. I understand this.

Anti black man for president like Obama.

Whereas his characteristics seem perfect to many people.

Those same characteristics are a turn off to jdanton.

Kind of like 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder.'

DanS. · 08-03-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericgtr

He's on any side that isn't Obama, he always has been. He fits in that "old man who would never vote for a black man" category. How many posts of his have you read on here where he states a black man will never get elected? Over and over he's beaten that horse to death and he till take any opportunity to make anti Obama posts he gets.

I don't think so man. He's about spot on here whether people like to hear it or not...those are some of the reason Obama is being viewed as a flip-flopper...Even if it isn't true relative to McCain.

Also, I get what's being said about Town Hall debates, but it still doesn't change the way people will view it. Also, they have the ability to work out the details so that it either A) doesn't have to be a town hall style debate or B)they make it fair somehow.,...it can be done....At least find a way to make it look like he has some spine when backing down....

Environment Man · 08-03-2008, 01:50 PM

Well sounds like Jdanton needs to be posting down in the Conservatives area, cause Eric's tolerance for criticism of Obama is extremely low.

Whereas you can criticize freely down with the area for the righteous.

RK77 · 08-03-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

This may all be true, but the "perception" is that he's changed his mind; again.

More and more, though you won't like this, Obama has shown no spine.

So? Was there some democrat you think had a spine in this campaign---Hillary didn't---she left a teenage daughter in a home where her father was having sex with other women........

Hillary just LIES.

So who are you promoting? Biden? Richardson? Edwards?

Quote:

He disowned a man after emphatically saying he couldn't.

No---he denounced a man who accused him of lying to the American public. He did not OWN the man----slavery is over---he was not married to him----he was not related to him----there was no "disown" to it.

Big deal.

He voted for a FISA bill after emphatically saying he couldn't.

Yes he did---He voted to have a judge charged to review the way the president had used the wiretapping and take actions accordingly.

Why didn't Hillary? Why didn't she want a judge to review what was going on? What is she trying to hide?

Quote:

It appears he agreed to publc financing; then didn't

He is being publically financed. He is the ONLY candidate who has relied on the public to finance him. Where you thinking that the "legislation" that was trying to gradually move us to the MASSIVE CHANGE that Obama has already brought about was more important than the ultimate goal itself?

Are you suggesting he should have taken a STEP BACKWARD in the ultimate goal?

Quote:

Now we have another

It's equally true that McCain's been all over the map on so many issues that flip flopping is his area of greatest expertise. However, that is not the subject of attention at this point in time.

Tell ya what........ how about you go to some other site and post 4-8 times a day the same bullshit over and over and over again about the problem that YOU see for McCain cause he is flip flopping and that will then become the subject of attention there----okay?

Those HONESTLY working on behalf of Obama are undertaking projects like this daily.

RK77 · 08-03-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Apparently the party is sick of Pelosi too?

anyways....what do you think about Obama backing away from the debates? I think it was a dumb move and makes him look like he's scared....

I am not sure what you are referring to?

He has scheduled 3 debates with McCain from September to November 4th.

Could you be referring to the Town Hall meetings?

This is where some people REALLY have to get over thinking that everything can be redefined every 5 seconds to suit themselves.

How in the HELL can you call it a "Town Hall Meeting" when you:

a) Screen people based on their politics for admitance?

Would you think that Obama should associate himself with a man who had a 61 year old librarian ticketed and removed because she had a sign that said McCain=Bush?

It is NOT any kind of a town hall if people are not free to ask the questions they choose and support the candidate they choose.

b) The entire POINT of a Town Hall is for people to get to exchange their thoughts and questions with the person speaking----how would that work with McCain and Obama trying to debate one another in the midst of it?

Why would ANYONE think it alright for the american people to be USED as PROPS for an exchange between candidates?

c) McCain keeps referring to these as Town Hall "Debates"----but he wants NO moderator.

So how is that a debate then---even one of the bastardized "debates" that the candidates usually have???

WHY would McCain insist on NOT having moderators? So that he can babble away and talk over Obama and if Obama interuppted him try to paint Obama as the uppity disrespectful n*gger?

I know that there are folks that are REALLY big on the entitlement to redefine things and change the rules in mid stream constantly---but am I now honestly seeing those people WHINE when they someone won't agree to meet on their unlevel playing field?

Come on! Who in the public is okay with these sorts of double standards? And WHY??

Next someone will complain that he wouldn't speak to the KKK in the woods at midnight!

CosmicRocker · 08-03-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdanton

All reminds me of the of "prevent" defense. How many times have we seen a team play it safe only to lose?

exactly. this is a BIG mistake. Obama has the chance to get in our livingrooms, as a candidate for president.

Now he has to rely on campaign stops, and adds - which really have not served him well, as of late.
Further - it continues to give McCain the chance to define himas opposed to defining himself
right next to McCain, right in our face where ratings would be high.

The Town Halls would be a mixed supporter audience, or those not sure yet; not the BS McCain used as a front.
get a moderator - that couild be done just to keep the time about equal if nothing else

By taking Q's from the audience, and speaking directly in a non campaign format,
Obama could show himself as ready to lead, ready to put out his positions, in a new style from adds or staged events.

It would get LOTS of coverage, and his superior performance woud turn this thing around from his flat month.
He 's counting on simple superior press coverage, which he is NOT getting anymore.

He's counting on adds, when he should count on himself as the master politician he is.

DanS. · 08-03-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK77

I am not sure what you are referring to?

He has scheduled 3 debates with McCain from September to November 4th.

Could you be referring to the Town Hall meetings?

This is where some people REALLY have to get over thinking that everything can be redefined every 5 seconds to suit themselves.

How in the HELL can you call it a "Town Hall Meeting" when you:

a) Screen people based on their politics for admitance?

Would you think that Obama should associate himself with a man who had a 61 year old librarian ticketed and removed because she had a sign that said McCain=Bush?

It is NOT any kind of a town hall if people are not free to ask the questions they choose and support the candidate they choose.

b) The entire POINT of a Town Hall is for people to get to exchange their thoughts and questions with the person speaking----how would that work with McCain and Obama trying to debate one another in the midst of it?

Why would ANYONE think it alright for the american people to be USED as PROPS for an exchange between candidates?

c) McCain keeps referring to these as Town Hall "Debates"----but he wants NO moderator.

So how is that a debate then---even one of the bastardized "debates" that the candidates usually have???

WHY would McCain insist on NOT having moderators? So that he can babble away and talk over Obama and if Obama interuppted him try to paint Obama as the uppity disrespectful n*gger?

Well I wasn't aware that they were town hall debates until Julia told me. But my point was about the perception of him backing down, not the fact that he backed down. I think that his campaign could have handled it better by changing the perception. That's all...

Really that's the whole point of my post, that deserved or not he is gaining a reputation as being a flip-flopper and that he better do something about unless he wants to end up like Kerry.

RK77 · 08-03-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

Well I wasn't aware that they were town hall debates until Julia told me. But my point was about the perception of him backing down, not the fact that he backed down. I think that his campaign could have handled it better by changing the perception. That's all...

I have said this several times before so it is not so much directed soley at you or this point.......

The PERCEPTION that prevails in public involves

a) the campaign handlers
b) the MSM
c) the democratic voters who are working to get their candidate elected.

The republican voters CONSISTENTLY kick the Democratic voters ASSES!!!

They have been making tee shirts and signs for their church marquees and sending emails and swamping the internet with posts and letters to editors and Obama dolls .....

They are COMMITTED to having a republican in office.

All while the dems suck pacifiers and complain about what somebody else didn't do to get a democratic president FOR them!

It is a shirking of responsibility of mass proportions that occurs every 4 years followed by another 4 of pissing and moaning about what the candidate coulda, shoulda, woulda done!!

The voter IS the spine of ANY party and any politician----and that is the way it SHOULD BE!

It makes NO sense whatsoever to bitch about things you cannot control instead of using that energy to DO the things you CAN control!

Everytime any democrat or purportedly democratic leaning independent gets ready to open their minds to say "spineless" they had better start checking their own first! Until we get an electorate HELL BENT on getting our own way we will be sending politicians to Washington with NO clout and NO way in the world of stepping out on ANY limb whatsoever!

The repukes climb out on TWIGS because they KNOW their folks will be right their for them when it starts to break!

The Dems can COUNT on their supporters leading the PISS and MOAN brigade if they SNEEZE wrong!

Quote:

Really that's the whole point of my post, that deserved or not he is gaining a reputation as being a flip-flopper and that he better do something about unless he wants to end up like Kerry.

Right or wrong 80% of the purported Obama supporters here have PUSHED the flip flop mantra DAILY! some in EVERY post they write!

Hide behind the principle thing all you want----for the Dems it is ALWAYS more about blowing their own personal horn---"I am a person of principle" than it is about getting a candidate elected.

There is NO perfect candidate and YOUR (universal you) way is not the ONLY way to skin a cat!

The intolerance and inflexiblity that the democratic electorate is displaying is TYPICAL and the results will be the same.......

WHY?

Because you cannot keep doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result!

What I recommend is that instead of just paying the "look at goodie, goodie me" game this time.....

Sit down and make a list of what is CRITICALLY important to you. If electing a dem is below the 3rd point----then you are a repuke at heart! You are ONLY looking to change the party of tyranny to get YOUR way to the top rung!

If electing a Dem is at the near the top then look at your next 5 points and select the 3 things that you would quit your job or leave your wife to work to get them done---to your satisfaction.

If there is NOTHING on that list that you would quit your job (and starve) or leave your wife (and be celibate and childless) for----then NOTHING the candidate does or doesn't do about those things during the campaign should stop you from supporting him!

Find the group---and they do exist --- who will be working to get those things done and join them---but meanwhile commit to getting the Dem in office and WORK for it!

Has anyone noticed that the ACLU is STILL supporting Obama full throttle--despite his FISA vote?

Has Gore come out bitching about off shore drilling?

Do you honestly think these issues are less important to them or that YOU (universal again) are just soooooo more principled? Get a clue!

The perception is all about YOU (universal) TOO!

DanS. · 08-03-2008, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RK77

I have said this several times before so it is not so much directed soley at you or this point.......

The PERCEPTION that prevails in public involves

a) the campaign handlers
b) the MSM
c) the democratic voters who are working to get their candidate elected.

The republican voters CONSISTENTLY kick the Democratic voters ASSES!!!

They have been making tee shirts and signs for their church marquees and sending emails and swamping the internet with posts and letters to editors and Obama dolls .....

They are COMMITTED to having a republican in office.

All while the dems suck pacifiers and complain about what somebody else didn't do to get a democratic president FOR them!

It is a shirking of responsibility of mass proportions that occurs every 4 years followed by another 4 of pissing and moaning about what the candidate coulda, shoulda, woulda done!!

The voter IS the spine of ANY party and any politician----and that is the way it SHOULD BE!

It makes NO sense whatsoever to bitch about things you cannot control instead of using that energy to DO the things you CAN control!

Everytime any democrat or purportedly democratic leaning independent gets ready to open their minds to say "spineless" they had better start checking their own first! Until we get an electorate HELL BENT on getting our own way we will be sending politicians to Washington with NO clout and NO way in the world of stepping out on ANY limb whatsoever!

The repukes climb out on TWIGS because they KNOW their folks will be right their for them when it starts to break!

The Dems can COUNT on their supporters leading the PISS and MOAN brigade if they SNEEZE wrong!

Right or wrong 80% of the purported Obama supporters here have PUSHED the flip flop mantra DAILY! some in EVERY post they write!

Hide behind the principle thing all you want----for the Dems it is ALWAYS more about blowing their own personal horn---"I am a person of principle" than it is about getting a candidate elected.

There is NO perfect candidate and YOUR (universal you) way is not the ONLY way to skin a cat!

The intolerance and inflexiblity that the democratic electorate is displaying is TYPICAL and the results will be the same.......

WHY?

Because you cannot keep doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result!

What I recommend is that instead of just paying the "look at goodie, goodie me" game this time.....

Sit down and make a list of what is CRITICALLY important to you. If electing a dem is below the 3rd point----then you are a repuke at heart! You are ONLY looking to change the party of tyranny to get YOUR way to the top rung!

If electing a Dem is at the near the top then look at your next 5 points and select the 3 things that you would quit your job or leave your wife to work to get them done---to your satisfaction.

If there is NOTHING on that list that you would quit your job (and starve) or leave your wife (and be celibate and childless) for----then NOTHING the candidate does or doesn't do about those things during the campaign should stop you from supporting him!

Find the group---and they do exist --- who will be working to get those things done and join them---but meanwhile commit to getting the Dem in office and WORK for it!

Has anyone noticed that the ACLU is STILL supporting Obama full throttle--despite his FISA vote?

Has Gore come out bitching about off shore drilling?

Do you honestly think these issues are less important to them or that YOU (universal again) are just soooooo more principled? Get a clue!

The perception is all about YOU (universal) TOO!

My posts are in observation of what has happened after the fact. They are in no way leading the drive to call Obama a flip-flopper or spineless. Hell all you have to do is look at the poll numbers or even Heretic here to see the point that I'm making...

And yes the MSM and the campaign handlers are responsible for the perception...but the campaign handlers need to be driving what the MSM says, they need to be proactive, not reactive to what the media does....that's why they're getting their asses kicked.

As far as where getting a dem elected on my list of Critically important to me....in reality it's probably at the bottom of the list. I don't care if somebody is dem/repub/independent or whatever, I want what's best for my family and my country...sometimes electing a dem is synomonous with electing a dem sometime it isn't....but they are not necessarily one and the same. I could give a rats ass about the democrats as a party.

Environment Man · 08-03-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

I don't care if somebody is dem/repub/independent or whatever, I want what's best for my family and my country...sometimes electing a dem is synomonous with electing a dem sometime it isn't....but they are not necessarily one and the same. I could give a rats ass about the democrats as a party.

Why can't I get away with saying this?

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