Richterscale

I was just about to post a comment on the 'White Sale' thread when it got (justifiably) shut down. It was getting pretty ugly.
But basically, in between the insults and name calling , the thread was over whether voter caging was racist or not.

Well, in a nutshell, yes.

And no.

There is absolutely a huge racist component to voter caging. No doubt about it. But to simplify it like that is slipping by the truth a bit.

Voter caging is a prime example of Class Warfare. It is a broadsided attack against the poor. It's better than a poll tax.

Couple the fact that the majority of poor Americans vote Democrat, and that a majority of Blacks and Hispanics are poor (or lower middle class) you have a compelling arguement to claim that voter caging is a racist practice. But you're wrong.

Does anyone here think the Michigan republican party gives a shit whether those people on it's 'foreclosed homes' list are black, white or purple?

Does anyone here think the threats against Virginia college students were only targeted towards certain races? If you do, you're a certified idiot.

This is not (solely) about race. But Republican operatives aren't stupid. They can do math and they know that to disenfranchise as many Democrats as possible, they have to chose a target rich environment.

So, yes. They will descend upon the poor all across this nation. And the majority of those poor will not be named Biff and be covered with freckles.
But I'll guarantee, if Biff is a poor white male from a Michigan suburb who is a registered democrat that just lost his home... The Republican party has him in their sights.

__________________
Google Sibel Edmonds

"How many people died from the Kama Sutra as opposed to the Bible? Who wins?" - Frank Zappa

CosmicRocker

let's continue then, without the personal attacks.

You make a good point, I kept forgetting to make.

Social stratification is much more about economic class now then it is about discrimination by sex or race.
There is still a lot of Identity voting; but i would expect this year to be economic to be the main factor.

There may be side effects, as you showed with your character Biff.
But by and large those who have more can use their leverage to get more.

Those that don't have to rely on good will.
There is less good will every year.

__________________

Traveling Wilburys (l to r)

Bob Dylan, Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison

RK77

Cute. To bad it has no basis in fact! What has been shown is that the republicans cage based on race (not class).

This is likely because those like Biff---are actually more likely to fall for the repuke litany of lies than blacks. AS ALL ELECTION EXIT POLLS TELL YOU!

Whether urban or rural white males vote republican. And in relatively large percentages! Clinton only got 36% of the white male vote and still won!

Desparation to veil blatant racist practices would lead one to suggest that the republicans might cage a population that they must rely on to win. Study of the patterns of caging---as can be found at blackboxvoting.org and commen sense would tell you otherwise!

To pretend that it is rich whites who elect the republicans is silly. They are elected OVERWELMINGLY by poor uneducated whites. The "CLASS" war that has you so terribly confused is one created by the republicans pitting the ACCURATELY assessed poor uneducated white people against EVERYONE else!

So much so that the mantra of all poor whites is all about "Wah!!!! You're elite!" sniffle, sniffle "You think you're better than me". wheezey whine "You should learn to guzzle beer and bowl to make me feel better about myself" grovel, grumble "Roll up your sleeves....." something that poor laborers see as a sign of being ready to work---doctors, lawyers and teachers don't ROLL UP SLEEVES to work HARD--

Blacks vote overwelmingly democratic everywhere in the USA in every class! And--- MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT---when you get to the Macomb and Oakland county african american communities you are NOT targeting the poor blacks---you have taken aim at the upper middle class african american communities as well.

The targeted areas of Macomb county are thus not the mid to northern regions where there are trailer parks (oh......you guys are preferring Mobile Home communities now right?) --- they are the southern suburbs that in many instances have communities that are 60%+ african american.

I will be perfectly happy to review ANY article, link or other evidence you have that illustrates that the GOP has instituted caging in ANY lower - middle class white communities. Maybe I just missed it.

CERTAINLY it would be easy enough to do---wouldn't it? If they wanted to cage by class they could do so in Iowa could they not? They are losing their in the polls --- the state is filled with poor white people.

How about purging voter roles in southern Ohio where there are scads and scads of poor white people? Do you have an article about the GOP caging those regions (since in your delusion poor whites vote democratic)?

I am SURE that if your assertions are correct there must be a plethora of data to support these caging of poor white folks as part of your Class war theory!

How about you produce an example or two---or maybe consider just what your purpose would be in creating an entirely unsubstantiated defense for the BLATANT racist practices.

Could it be just a pity move to defend a vile racist pal?

Richterscale

Well, that's kinda my argument.

It's 100% Economic warfare.
And 90% Racial warfare.

But the race part is the ugly side effect of the class part.

Either way, voter caging hurts Democrats. Period. On that point, at least, I'm sure we can all agree.

__________________
Google Sibel Edmonds

"How many people died from the Kama Sutra as opposed to the Bible? Who wins?" - Frank Zappa

CosmicRocker

"In Ohio, higher-income voters have moved more toward McCain in the last few weeks, while lower-income voters have trended toward Obama," Holland said.
"It looks like economic issues are increasingly dividing voters along income lines -- at least in Ohio -- in the classic pattern that we have seen in previous elections

__________________

Traveling Wilburys (l to r)

Bob Dylan, Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison

HarperLee

I usually agree with you, but I guess I am a certified idiot because I am convinced that the neocons have systematically worked to disenfranchise black voters since before the 2000 election.

I wish I could get a transcript of the last few minutes of the HBO movie Recount. Black voters were targeted in 2000, before
GWB was even appointed by the Supreme Court.

Links to only a few of the hundreds of artciles addressing black voter disenfranchisement by the Republican party:

The FBI Ignored Threats to Black Voters:
The FBI Ignored Threats to Black Voters | Democracy and Elections | AlterNet

Vote Suppression and the Gonzales 8 Scandal:
Campaign Legal Center blog: Vote Suppression and the Gonzales 8 Scandal

The War on Voting Rights: Voter Fraud Smears, Voter ID and Corruption at DOJ:
Campaign Legal Center blog: Vote Suppression and the Gonzales 8 Scandal

From the above article:

Such efforts by ACORN and other organizations have suffered from voter registration drive restrictions enacted after partisans made bogus claims of voter fraud, including one in New Mexico where ACORN alone dropped their state registration rate from 35,000 new voters in 2004 to just 2,000 in 2006. That same year, former U.S. attorney for New Mexico, David Iglesias concluded there was not enough evidence of voter fraud in the state to proceed with indictments. As a result of his findings (or lack thereof), he was fired in a move that triggered exposure of the systematic politicization of the Justice Department.

The Bush-appointed U. S. Attorney for my district was fired because he balked at indicting members of the ACORN group just days before
the 2004 election -- the timing of such an indictment violated DOJ internal guidelines. (I don't know much about ACORN, but I do know its members are almost all, if not all, black.)

One Milllion Black Votes Didn't Count in the 2000 Presidential Election:
One Million Black Votes Didn't Count in the 2000 Presidential Election

I thought that a healthy percentage of Latino voters voted for GWB in 2004. Latinos are Catholic and against abortion.

I apologize for being too lazy to do the google, but I don't think it is any longer a safe assumption that "most poor people vote Democratic." Karl Rove and the Religious Right have dramatically changed that equasion.

The poorest area in my state, the area with the highest percentage of people on public assistance, has voted Republican in at least the last two elections because of the fundamentalist factor. (We are talking about an almost all white area.) Claire McCaskill has been quoted as saying that she saw yard signs in that part of the state in 2004 that said, "A vote for Kerry is a vote for Satan."

__________________
Oliver Stone on George W. Bush: "the banality of evil"

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

DanS.

targeting race or class is not mutually exclusive.

There is enough room under the big GOP tent for both to be discriminated against.

HarperLee

From Was the 2004 Election Stolen, by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.,
Rolling Stone, June 1, 2006

To stem the tide of new registrations, the Republican National Committee and the Ohio Republican Party attempted to knock tens of thousands of predominantly minority and urban voters off the rolls through illegal mailings known in electioneering jargon as ''caging.'' During the Eighties, after the GOP used such mailings to disenfranchise nearly 76,000 black voters in New Jersey and Louisiana, it was forced to sign two separate court orders agreeing to abstain from caging. But during the summer of 2004, the GOP targeted minority voters in Ohio by zip code, sending registered letters to more than 200,000 newly registered voters in sixty-five counties. On October 22nd, a mere eleven days before the election, Ohio Republican Party Chairman Bob Bennett -- who also chairs the board of elections in Cuyahoga County -- sought to invalidate the registrations of 35,427 voters who had refused to sign for the letters or whose mail came back as undeliverable. Almost half of the challenged voters were from Democratic strongholds in and around Cleveland.

Was the 2004 Election Stolen? : Rolling Stone

__________________
Oliver Stone on George W. Bush: "the banality of evil"

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

CosmicRocker

One thing we're overlooking is todays economic crisis.
economics will now dominate this campaign until Nov 4th.

It's therefore expected that this race will break more along income lines, than the cultural lines of 04

__________________

Traveling Wilburys (l to r)

Bob Dylan, Jeff Lynne, Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison

HarperLee

Just for the record, I agree that Biff is a Republican. Biff drives an old truck plastered with Support Our Troops and God Bless America stickers. He doesn't trust presidential candidates who speak in complete sentence with clauses. He doesn't care if the upper 2% most wealthy in this country get all the tax breaks so long as not one cent of his income tax goes for any kind of welfare program.

In fact, he feels honored to make life easier for the very wealthy. Biff knows his place!

Biff and his wife are for guns and war and torture and wiretapping and killing innocent Iraqis, but they are against abortion and all social
programs that benefit children ("the least of these").

Biff and his wife still think that Saddam Hussein personally piloted both planes into the WTC on 9/11.

__________________
Oliver Stone on George W. Bush: "the banality of evil"

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home