Sould Zoos Make Their Daily Reports Public - Page 2

gorillamom · 01-30-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jowey

Why did they have him do his daughters ? Wouldnt the risk of recessive traits be counter productive ? If I was in the business I would breed for the breed not the looks. Would probably breed a super smart, strong animal that would kick our but....

They bred him with his daughters trying to get another albino. Sick and discusting. I just saw a program the other night that in Russia during Stalin's reign he had a doctor take a monkey kill it, the removed the head of another monkey and attached it to the headless body of the other monkey, shocked it back to life. Stalin's idea was to take apes and try to put human heads on them to make a super army and see if the consiousness of the monkey with the head could be transfered to the headless monkey's body. They also tried to impregnate a women with ape sperm! Humans are just fucking sick!

gorillamom · 01-30-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refuge51

Oh g-mom..how tragic

Yes. Zoo Atlanta let their female Kuchi mate with her father producing an offspring as well. They claim they didn't know she was old enough to mate! She was only 4 and that is about 1 year early, but how do you not notice 2 gorillas mating. The vocals alone would be the first clue and the female's behavior for she solicites the male in a very obvious way. What will happen to that male. He is now with an all male group, but in the end will be unwanted.

God Is Santa for Adults · 01-31-2008, 04:31 PM

such a sad story...

jowey · 01-31-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorillamom

They bred him with his daughters trying to get another albino. Sick and discusting. I just saw a program the other night that in Russia during Stalin's reign he had a doctor take a monkey kill it, the removed the head of another monkey and attached it to the headless body of the other monkey, shocked it back to life. Stalin's idea was to take apes and try to put human heads on them to make a super army and see if the consiousness of the monkey with the head could be transfered to the headless monkey's body. They also tried to impregnate a women with ape sperm! Humans are just fucking sick!

No shit, wonder what they are doing now with genetics and our knowledge of cells.

OldManOnFire · 02-02-2008, 08:42 AM

If the zoos are private business, then they owe no information to anyone.

If the zoos are public enterprises, then the public is entitled to appropriate information.

You know what...there are thousands of zoos around the world, no doubt with millions of animals, mammals, fish, birds, etc. in captivity. Some are done for breeding purposes, others for health regeneration, and some just for the profit. There are no official guides in this world that dictate precisely how to care for these animals, and as a consequence, there are all sorts of environments and situations. And subjectively we judge if these conditions are good or bad.

Zoos in the collective sense have been fantastic tools to protect, nurture, heal, and to share with the public, animals from around the world--most of which we would never see in our lifetimes. In this respect, they are great!

Sometimes an animal will die. Sometimes they might be mistreated by an individual. Sometimes the situation is not perfect. But this is quite rare! It's unfortunate when an animal dies but it happens. I would focus on the fact that for every one that dies, thousands or millions more have been given a great situation.

The only way to eliminate all of everything in this arena is to ban zoos. This will accomplish some things but will be worse for the animals in the long term...

gorillamom · 02-02-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

If the zoos are private business, then they owe no information to anyone.

If the zoos are public enterprises, then the public is entitled to appropriate information.

You know what...there are thousands of zoos around the world, no doubt with millions of animals, mammals, fish, birds, etc. in captivity. Some are done for breeding purposes, others for health regeneration, and some just for the profit. There are no official guides in this world that dictate precisely how to care for these animals, and as a consequence, there are all sorts of environments and situations. And subjectively we judge if these conditions are good or bad.

Zoos in the collective sense have been fantastic tools to protect, nurture, heal, and to share with the public, animals from around the world--most of which we would never see in our lifetimes. In this respect, they are great!

Sometimes an animal will die. Sometimes they might be mistreated by an individual. Sometimes the situation is not perfect. But this is quite rare! It's unfortunate when an animal dies but it happens. I would focus on the fact that for every one that dies, thousands or millions more have been given a great situation.

The only way to eliminate all of everything in this arena is to ban zoos. This will accomplish some things but will be worse for the animals in the long term...

You are wrong about the numbers of animals in zoos. Much of the problem is there is not enough gentic diversity. Take Snowflake the albino gorilla in Spain. He died a few years ago but they bred him with his daughters to try and get another albino. Zoo Atlanta let Kuchi breed with her father producing Stadi a male they will have no use ofr. So what will happen to these unwanted endangered species. If they fall under the USDA then yes, they need to make those record public .Even privatly owned has to abide by USDA which is a worthless government agency. I should know. It is all for profit. Zoos are lying when they say they are educational. You can learn more from books and TV shows than you can going to a zoo. If they wamnt to truely be educational they will stop this breeding and then maybe we humans will feel the urgency these animals face not only in captivity but in the wild as well. You never know what you had until it's gone. I know that from experience.

OldManOnFire · 02-02-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

QUOTE=gorillamom;96432 You are wrong about the numbers of animals in zoos.

If my guesses are incorrect then what is the answer??

Quote:

Much of the problem is there is not enough gentic diversity. Take Snowflake the albino gorilla in Spain. He died a few years ago but they bred him with his daughters to try and get another albino. Zoo Atlanta let Kuchi breed with her father producing Stadi a male they will have no use ofr.

All I can say is that 'most' zoos are not run by clowns and idiots. Whatever they have done in these rare cases was surely done for some reason. Without knowing the true intent, it is not right to condemn them.

Quote:

So what will happen to these unwanted endangered species. If they fall under the USDA then yes, they need to make those record public .Even privatly owned has to abide by USDA which is a worthless government agency. I should know.

Only information that is collected by the USDA for public viewing will be available. If it is the USDA who presides over US zoos, then based on what I know about most zoos, I would say they are doing a pretty good job.

Quote:

It is all for profit. Zoos are lying when they say they are educational.

This is ridiculous GM. Absolutely millions and millions of school kids are exposed to zoos all over the country, mostly with the intent of educating those kids. And I have been an annual member of zoos for years and I have learned so much.

Quote:

You can learn more from books and TV shows than you can going to a zoo.

Again, don't be ridiculous...people can learn from all venues. And if you have ever stared into the eyes of a polar bear, or panda bear, a dolphin, or some of the primates, that feeling is worth a thousand times more than seeing some 2-D pictures.

Quote:

If they wamnt to truely be educational they will stop this breeding and then maybe we humans will feel the urgency these animals face not only in captivity but in the wild as well. You never know what you had until it's gone. I know that from experience.

First, although it is typically discouraged in nature, there is some inbreeding in some animals. This does not excuse those who might practice procedures that are over the line, but it's also not the end of the world. And yes it's sad when animals die, but if they die due to neglect or ill-advised procedures, this is surely rare.

I think most of our zoos are fantastic, and over the years we have supported some of them with our money and our participation, and we look forward to this long into the future...

gorillamom · 02-02-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

If my guesses are incorrect then what is the answer??

All I can say is that 'most' zoos are not run by clowns and idiots. Whatever they have done in these rare cases was surely done for some reason. Without knowing the true intent, it is not right to condemn them.

Only information that is collected by the USDA for public viewing will be available. If it is the USDA who presides over US zoos, then based on what I know about most zoos, I would say they are doing a pretty good job.

This is ridiculous GM. Absolutely millions and millions of school kids are exposed to zoos all over the country, mostly with the intent of educating those kids. And I have been an annual member of zoos for years and I have learned so much.

Again, don't be ridiculous...people can learn from all venues. And if you have ever stared into the eyes of a polar bear, or panda bear, a dolphin, or some of the primates, that feeling is worth a thousand times more than seeing some 2-D pictures.

First, although it is typically discouraged in nature, there is some inbreeding in some animals. This does not excuse those who might practice procedures that are over the line, but it's also not the end of the world. And yes it's sad when animals die, but if they die due to neglect or ill-advised procedures, this is surely rare.

I think most of our zoos are fantastic, and over the years we have supported some of them with our money and our participation, and we look forward to this long into the future...

There are only about 550 gorillas in captity world wide. The number of "founder or wild caught" gorillas is less. If you knew what you were supporting you wouldn't be putting your money out. I worked at a zoo for 13 years. Animals die many times because of human mistakes. Like when out vet went to Maylasia to get a female Sunbear for breeding purposes. Well, the vet came back with a male! How do you mis-sex an animals epsecially when female's always have a GYN exam before being moved. They are immobilized to be examined. Those kids are not getting the truth. Not about zoos. We can educate them without zoos like many places where there are no zoos, yet these kids learn more about the animals, and what is happening to their habitats. Zoos are nothing more than entertaimnet disguised as "educational'" And don't you think the money should go for the care of the animals first and for most? I can tell you, it doesn't.

OldManOnFire · 02-02-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

QUOTE=gorillamom;96633 There are only about 550 gorillas in captity world wide. The number of "founder or wild caught" gorillas is less. If you knew what you were supporting you wouldn't be putting your money out. I worked at a zoo for 13 years. Animals die many times because of human mistakes. Like when out vet went to Maylasia to get a female Sunbear for breeding purposes. Well, the vet came back with a male! How do you mis-sex an animals epsecially when female's always have a GYN exam before being moved. They are immobilized to be examined.

GM...there is no way in my mind I will ever condemn the management and procedures of the San Diego Zoo. I'm a long time member and supporter of their efforts. Yes an animal can die from a person's mistakes or negligence but this is rare. For each that you can find that has died, you'll probably find 100 that were saved, including from extinction. Most of the larger and successful zoos have full participation from the public; with donations, board members, volunteers, etc. and if things were as bad as you claim, something would be done about it.

Quote:

Those kids are not getting the truth. Not about zoos. We can educate them without zoos like many places where there are no zoos, yet these kids learn more about the animals, and what is happening to their habitats. Zoos are nothing more than entertaimnet disguised as "educational'" And don't you think the money should go for the care of the animals first and for most? I can tell you, it doesn't.

Zoos are educational and they are entertainment and I don't think I've ever been disappointed in my hundreds of visits to zoos. I learn something every single time I go. People have no other way to appreciate these animals other than in limited captivity unless we wish to live in the bush for a few years. Sure some might believe there are cruel conditions, but hey...sometimes I feel this way in how I am treated where I live!!

The SD zoo and many others are doing great work! Don't ruin this great work just because of a few people and rare cases...

gorillamom · 02-02-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldManOnFire

GM...there is no way in my mind I will ever condemn the management and procedures of the San Diego Zoo. I'm a long time member and supporter of their efforts. Yes an animal can die from a person's mistakes or negligence but this is rare. For each that you can find that has died, you'll probably find 100 that were saved, including from extinction. Most of the larger and successful zoos have full participation from the public; with donations, board members, volunteers, etc. and if things were as bad as you claim, something would be done about it.

Zoos are educational and they are entertainment and I don't think I've ever been disappointed in my hundreds of visits to zoos. I learn something every single time I go. People have no other way to appreciate these animals other than in limited captivity unless we wish to live in the bush for a few years. Sure some might believe there are cruel conditions, but hey...sometimes I feel this way in how I am treated where I live!!

The SD zoo and many others are doing great work! Don't ruin this great work just because of a few people and rare cases...

You see that's where you are wrong. They aren't doing these wonderful things they have you thinking the're doing. It's not just SD. Let me ask you this. Would you want to be born is a zoo? Would you want your jailers to decide who you live with, what ,when, and how much you can eat? When you go in and outside? They have no clue how many of these animals from the wild (the gene pool) are related. When these animals are caught in the wild the poachers usually go into familuar areas, as did the main buyer for zoo's and circuses back before the Endagered Species Act. If we need keepers, we need keepers of the wild, not captivity. It is no life and putting them in "nice" looking habitats does not make it any better for them. The Faiulure of Ivan the gorillas move from a store in Tacoma where he lived for 30 years to Zoo Atlanta was a failure. Ford Motor Company put out $250,000.00 and were never told the truth about what they were paying for, a damaged gorilla. All they wanted was his sperm. His best interests were never considered or they would have let the one person that gorilla trusted unconditionally go with him and do it the way Ivan needed it done. Zoo Atlanta also fot a male gorilla from the LA zoo. Caesar weighed 600 pounds when they got him. They dropped him down to 400 pounds in less than 6 months and he died. I got good pictures of him about a week before he died. And as far as you thinking there are hundreds of success stories, you have been sorely lied to.

View Poll Results: What do you think should be done
Make public	7	100.00%
not make public	0	0%
make avaliable to animal rights groups only	0	0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

01-31-2008, 04:31 PM	#13 (permalink)
God Is Santa for Adults Alcohol & Tobacco Free! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 396 My Mood: Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 6 Posts	such a sad story... __________________ Have Faith in Yourself... . ...Not an invisible friend! *I Believe = I Guess Religion is an Illusion of Control!* www.Yessy.com/OldBaldy www.OldBaldyPhoto.com
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02-02-2008, 08:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
OldManOnFire Extraterrestrial Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: California Posts: 1,633 My Mood: Thanks: 4 Thanked 42 Times in 35 Posts	If the zoos are private business, then they owe no information to anyone. If the zoos are public enterprises, then the public is entitled to appropriate information. You know what...there are thousands of zoos around the world, no doubt with millions of animals, mammals, fish, birds, etc. in captivity. Some are done for breeding purposes, others for health regeneration, and some just for the profit. There are no official guides in this world that dictate precisely how to care for these animals, and as a consequence, there are all sorts of environments and situations. And subjectively we judge if these conditions are good or bad. Zoos in the collective sense have been fantastic tools to protect, nurture, heal, and to share with the public, animals from around the world--most of which we would never see in our lifetimes. In this respect, they are great! Sometimes an animal will die. Sometimes they might be mistreated by an individual. Sometimes the situation is not perfect. But this is quite rare! It's unfortunate when an animal dies but it happens. I would focus on the fact that for every one that dies, thousands or millions more have been given a great situation. The only way to eliminate all of everything in this arena is to ban zoos. This will accomplish some things but will be worse for the animals in the long term... __________________ Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...
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