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Old 02-13-2008, 08:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well it's not irrelevant, you aren't going to get any new nuclear plants built in the next 10 years no matter what you do and even that figure is overly hopeful. Something has to be done a lot sooner than that.

Besides the current low water levels might cause some nuclear plants in the Southeast to reduce their output which would make desalination even more difficult and expensive.
Each are solutions to the other problem. And desalination is the only solution over the long term other than reverting back to medieval sanitation practices [i.e. bathing once a year and no city sannitation or plumbing of any kind].
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I read through those articles and now my head hurts! Wow, it is really complicated, and I knew they'd been fightinf for a while, but 18 YEARS! What an unholy mess!
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Each are solutions to the other problem. And desalination is the only solution over the long term other than reverting back to medieval sanitation practices [i.e. bathing once a year and no city sannitation or plumbing of any kind].
The cost of desalinated water would be enormous though, on an order of a magnitude more expensive. Stricter water conservation regulations are needed now. If you try to plan on solving your water problems with future nuclear plants you are taking a massive gamble. By the time you would be lucky to get a few built the increase in conventional electricty demand will have probably outstripped the new generation capacity.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:32 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Wow, you guys in Alabama are seriously hurting!

We've been forbidden to water lawns and such for years. What little we're allowed, doesn't do any good when there's a drought. Last Summer wasn't so bad, but the Summer before everything was dead and brown and ugly. It was pretty depressing around here. Of course green lawns aren't critical to survival, but it does keep it a little cooler in general. Sounds like Georgia got beaten back a bit, but they're not complying.

Who knows how they're going to work this out. A friend told me she'd read they're building another huge water park near Atlanta. From the sound of it, Georgia's just going to do whatever they want, regardless of the court's rulings.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I read through those articles and now my head hurts! Wow, it is really complicated, and I knew they'd been fightinf for a while, but 18 YEARS! What an unholy mess!
The funny thing is Purdue says things like "the state can't conserve it's way out of the drought". That might be true but that doesn't mean it can unconserve it's way out either.

Historic water agreements are pretty messy things. Ask Mexico how much water they get from the Colorado river by the time it gets to them.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The cost of desalinated water would be enormous though, on an order of a magnitude more expensive.
Ah, that's a myth. If we can do it affordably for the Saudis back in the 60's then we can do it better now and for cheaper.

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Stricter water conservation regulations are needed now.
And who do you suppose will pass the law forbidding golf courses, four star hotels and casinos to stop wasting water? Because while that would deal with the overwhelming majority of the problem it would also be a political death sentence to any office holder who supported it even if such a measure failed.

Plus, no matter how expensive you think desalination is it's still cheaper than the desertification of the bulk of the continent. Water conservation is barely a start not the solution in itself. Desalination will have to enter into this, and better sooner than later.

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If you try to plan on solving your water problems with future nuclear plants you are taking a massive gamble. By the time you would be lucky to get a few built the increase in conventional electricty demand will have probably outstripped the new generation capacity.
No you wouldn't, not at all. Tying desalination in with more nuclear plants and coordinating the two deals with both problems. Then, as other clean energy sources, increase in output those plants can be dismantled over the course of the 21st century.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ah, that's a myth. If we can do it affordably for the Saudis back in the 60's then we can do it better now and for cheaper.
LOL, you have got to be kidding. For the Saudis, that says it all. Water is extremely expensive to begin with there, it's a giant desert. And they have basically free energy, they don't need to building expensive nuclear powerplants to desalinate the water.

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And who do you suppose will pass the law forbidding golf courses, four star hotels and casinos to stop wasting water? Because while that would deal with the overwhelming majority of the problem it would also be a political death sentence to any office holder who supported it even if such a measure failed.
When the lake runs dry it runs dry and they won't be able to waste water. It will be a political problem either way.

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Plus, no matter how expensive you think desalination is it's still cheaper than the desertification of the bulk of the continent.
Well large parts of the continent are not undergoing desertification. And if you are thinking about pumping desalinated water hundreds and thousands of miles uphill to inland locations, the energy demand would be even more draconian.

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Water conservation is barely a start not the solution in itself. Desalination will have to enter into this, and better sooner than later.
The Southeast will not remain dry for decades to come. By the time you have desalination plants built rainfall will have likely returned to normal or near normal. So you conserve during the dry spells rather than spending billions on something that won't be ready for a couple of decades and likely be very uneconomical.

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No you wouldn't, not at all. Tying desalination in with more nuclear plants and coordinating the two deals with both problems. Then, as other clean energy sources, increase in output those plants can be dismantled over the course of the 21st century.
The US needs to build some 150-200 new nuclear plants in the next 50 years just to keep up with electricity demand and ween off of coal. And that won't happen, the approval rate is extremely slow. Add in desalination and pumping requirements and you will be even farther in the hole.
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  • I have seen many aluminum aircraft versus steel support columns in aircraft hangars for something around 40 years now, and I have NEVER seen aluminum prevail over the steel.
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  • Two instants, or 3, or whatever number of instants it takes for you to start the clock.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I suggest we pump Lake Michigan's water to these needy states.

Not Erie though.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I suggest we pump Lake Michigan's water to these needy states.

Not Erie though.
I believe the great lake states and Canadian provinces have signed an agreement that forbids any large scale export of water.
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Quote:
  • I have seen many aluminum aircraft versus steel support columns in aircraft hangars for something around 40 years now, and I have NEVER seen aluminum prevail over the steel.
  • Well ya see TC, that energy you mentioned, potential energy you called it, was fulfilled/released ONLY at completion of the event.
  • Two instants, or 3, or whatever number of instants it takes for you to start the clock.
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