Lake Mead may go dry by 2021 - Page 4

DanS. · 02-13-2008, 11:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Titanium Cat

You are probably right. But if Indiana and Ohio signed it then exporting it will be tough.

lol...Indiana? the walk to my car is longer than their beachfront.

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He doesn't live in Cleveland does he?

he wishes...the backwoods of Pennsylvania...otherwise known as the great lakes Kentucky.

Dawnling · 02-13-2008, 11:16 PM

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Originally Posted by DRS112

you are adorable and precious!

Dawnling · 02-13-2008, 11:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Titanium Cat

Wow, you guys in Alabama are seriously hurting!

Up in DC, things are tan and dying.
I AM NOT KIDDING when I say that DC people are stupid!

They hold a glass of water in hand and say,
"I hate rain"
FUCKING DORKKKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A SPECIAL kind of stupid lives here.

I made a bumper sticker that says,
" If you don't like rain, drink dust."

I had to HAMMER on the Weather Channel to get them to STOP
saying, "It another nice day......."
DORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heretic · 02-13-2008, 11:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Dawnling

You are smart and WONDERFUL!!

I keep trying to tell people that

we don't have a water shortage on this planet!

We have a water-cleaning-and-delivery-problem.

Where are the stocks to buy to get funding to those who will be the future experts in desalination, pleae?

While not exactly the best corporate citizen, General Electric are old hands at building desalination plants. I'm sure there's others, but that's the one which pops into my mind as the best bet; a U.S. company located on this continent and the work would be hard to outsource.

What would be really interesting is to see flood gate systems integrated with desalination so that the energy of tidal and storm surges could be a temperary boost to the power needs of the plant. One of the reasons I suggested above that tidal power generation and desalination be intergrated into a single system.

Dawnling · 02-13-2008, 11:23 PM

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Originally Posted by The_Heretic

While not exactly the best corporate citizen, General Electric are old hands at building desalination plants. I'm sure there's others, but that's the one which pops into my mind as the best bet; a U.S. company located on this continent and the work would be hard to outsource.

What would be really interesting is to see flood gate systems integrated with desalination so that the energy of tidal and storm surges could be a temperary boost to the power needs of the plant. One of the reasons I suggested above that tidal power generation and desalination be intergrated into a single system.

Man, I vote for you!

I'm not in love with GE.
I'm ready to fund sombody else first.
You are ON TARGET with that flow-thing and two-way turbines spinning.
That would be beauty!

Heretic · 02-13-2008, 11:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Dawnling

Man, I vote for you!

I'm not in love with GE.
I'm ready to fund sombody else first.
You are ON TARGET with that flow-thing and two-way turbines spinning.
That would be beauty!

Read Colapse: How Societies Choose To Fail Or Succeed by Jared Diamond.

The scientific and historical details of sustainable human civilization are so much that even I have to take breaks from reading it due to the depressing nature of modern civilization practices. It's a wonder that the whole of China isn't already a wasteland when you learn about how much they screwed their environment up.

Dawnling · 02-13-2008, 11:34 PM

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Originally Posted by The_Heretic

Read Colapse: How Societies Choose To Fail Or Succeed by Jared Diamond.

The scientific and historical details of sustainable human civilization are so much that even I have to take breaks from reading it due to the depressing nature of modern civilization practices. It's a wonder that the whole of China isn't already a wasteland when you learn about how much they screwed their environment up.

I like Jared Diamond but I know that stupid things are being done every where and I can't stand it.

I am from Oregon.
We learned early in life that it REALLY matters how one gets stuff.

All I can do now is to keep hammering and finding people to support

like you

Heretic · 02-13-2008, 11:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Dawnling

I like Jared Diamond but I know that stupid things are being done every where and I can't stand it.

I am from Oregon.
We learned early in life that it REALLY matters how one gets stuff.

All I can do now is to keep hammering and finding people to support

like you

Can I choose how you support me? If so find me a publisher.

Dawnling · 02-13-2008, 11:47 PM

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Originally Posted by The_Heretic

Can I choose how you support me? If so find me a publisher.

a publisher? hmmmmm.

Tell me who you've tried, please.

Tell me who you want.

Say exactly what you want to happen:

1.
2.
3.
4.
please

Titanium Cat · 02-13-2008, 11:50 PM

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Originally Posted by The_Heretic

You're exactly right. As rich as they are they're less in a position to afford desalination than the U.S. is. It's precisely why I bring it up.

LOL, 60% of the world's desalination plants exist in the Middle East because it's economically feasible there. Not to mention it's their only option.

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Actually, their wells are running dry,

Everybodies wells are running dry! And they have the largest conventional reservers on the planet, bar none. Besides they have lots of natural gas which is costly to export and more important for electricity generation.

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and because of their current oil pumping practices [so that the amount per years doesn't drop] it's running out faster than it should.

They are using water injection like just about every other major producer is to keep up production. They aren't going to run out of oil and gas any time soon.

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And, what do you think will happen to the Americas when we've destroyed our fresh water sources? Imagine the water table lowered by tens or even hundreds of feet, and what little water is left in underground sources is so laced with various salts as to be unusualbe, even toxic.

Well the interior and mountain regions are fucked because you just can't pump that kind of volume of water those kind of distances.

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The Arabian peninsela and indeed all of Mesopotamia use to be a huge bread basket, just like much of the U.S. is now... better in fact. But human presence and poor land use [back then due to poor understanding of water and soil in the ecosystem] turned it all into a desert.

You got a link for that? The Arabian Peninsula has been a hot dry desert for tens of thousands of years, long before there was any significant mass agriculture on it. Human activities didn't turn it into a desert. Iraq was a bread basket because it has two large rivers going through it, Saudia Arabia has virtually no fresh water.

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That'll happen here only in a matter of decades not millennia.

That is hard to predict. Some models show decreases precipitation, some show increased precipitation. It will vary for different regions.

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Water conservation should be included, that much is true, more so than most understand, but it's not going to solve anything without taking more drastic measures. The rate of fresh water restoration is dropping, and not just because of global warming. Just about every aspect of modern life is unsustainable even as it was decades ago. And it's only going to get worse, much worse, to the point where conservation simply won't have any appreciable impact.

Agreed.

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So we should start desalination now while it's much easier and we've the economy at present rather than the far more dminished economy of the future to work with. [Yes, the loss of fresh water will do more damage to the economy than even the loss of oil and coal combined!]

For coastal regions sea water desalination is viable, when you start going inland it gets more and more expensive. But you aren't going to do it with new nuclear plants in the next 20 plus years. So where is the power going to come from?

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All the more reason to do desalination A.S.A.P. And it'll have to be as part of a national water policy [but not a commodity to be traded] rather than within or between states.

Agreed that it would be more effective implemented as a national policy, but I also think it will be extremely difficult to do so.

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Actually they are suffering desertification to some degree. In the midwest you can find whole towns that are empty due to the failure of farms. Several lakes in California are completely gone and now the land no longer retains enough water for those lakes to return. And the problem isn't even close to full bloom, though that's just around the corner.

Desalination for the California coast is more viable, water is already very expensive there. The midwest, well you aren't going to pump desalinated sea water up there.

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Wrong agani. It's take less energy than to pump oil over the same distances. The reason is because water is less dense and has a far lower viscosity than oil.

LOL, I guess that explains why oil floats on water eh?

It's a ridiculous comparison anyway. Oil costs $90 a barrel, the cost of pumping it is very small in proportion. What does a barrel of water cost, 10-20 cents?

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No, it won't. The effects of salination of soil [due to agriculture], damage to the water retaining features of the land and geology there as well as global warming will diminish rainfall and natural water storage in those regions.

You say no it won't as if you actually had a source that says so. Models are still pretty vague on regional precipitation predicitons, some say more, some say less.

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It's not uneconomical at all. That's just another myth companies have used as excuses for dragging their feet.

It's not economical to pump the water significant distances especially if you start going up in elevation.

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Actually, it'll speed up when the need arises. Plus, you're forgetting that France already uses nuclear for 80% of their power, so it's doable.

So what if France does? NIMBY is the rule of thumb in the US and right now approval of new nuclear plants is stuck in the mud. It will be decades before there are a significant number of new plants online.

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Wrong. But if you don't there will come no better options over the long term. And in that time our future economy will be less able to bring about desalination because the far more damage done by delaying.

One generally does not factor in future economy projections that far in advance to justify huge capital expenditures now though.

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