DanS.

I always find that argument strange...if it were true, then the polar opposite(socialism) would have paid higher wages and been more environmentally conscious.

Also strange, is that the most capitalistic country in the world(over time and aside from all of the other short comings) has the highest wages and lowest unemployment...

Pretty much sums it up...

The weird thing about consumerism though is....what good is money if you don't spend it? Savings/investing is mostly to assure a given income at a later point in life, so that you can consume then....

Lolli

Talk about extrapolating or what

I'm not sure how you came to that inclusion at all but gross exaggeration and over simplification.

How do you think American came to be this way? That's great and all for America, but what about all the countries it had to exploit to get that way?


If money is everything, then yeah I guess on would have that mentality. Consumerism promotes waste, greed, feeling of unsatisfaction, always wanting more, lack of value and appreciation for money and material goods...I could go on and on. It's like the sayings go "money isn't everything" or "money can't buy everything".

DanS.

What do you mean? Saying that capitalism relies on slave wages and degradation to the environment isn't oversimplification?

As opposed to what economic model that doesn't do the above?


Through capitalism, private ownership of resources, hard work, innovation, luck....?

Never claimed America was perfect...but we didn't get where we are by colonizing other countries like the Europeans did....

Who's being exploited?



Of course money can't buy those things...and the lack of money can't buy those things either...except for the not wasting part, because you can't waste what you don't have....but that's really not what my point was....

Kanadesaga

Once you accept the fact that corporations and business in general is at best, a zero sum game. and it's a fixed game, you will see the inherent inequalities and illegalities of "business as usual".


Through murder, exploitation, monopoly and opportunistic criminals in high places.



You might want to rethink that statement, oh padawon. Especially when it comes to Latin and South America. Take a look at the history of Chiquita in Honduras. Economic (corporate) colonialism is still colonialism.


I've said this before, WE ALL ARE. You choose not to believe the crazy old man.


If? If? If? Conservatives and corporatists only worship money. Nothing else matters. Not family, Not loved ones. And when anyone says "it's business", you are putting profit above people. Always.



In amerika, money is god. period. there is no other religion. You are judged by money, your life is scored by money, money allows you to get away with murder, rape, anything.

__________________

DanS.

What are you talking about?





I've heard vague things about chiquita...but it hardly explains what thet topic was or disputes my assertion that whatever shades of colonization you come up with doesn't compare to what's happened in the the rest of the developed world




Funny...I don't feel exploited...hell, maybe because I've seen what can happen when you try here....My parents were dirt poor(my dad came from a dirt poor family) when I was born and now they both own their own businesses....I wonder which member of the elite deemed him acceptable to be successful




Oh bullshit...you don't know them, you've never met them...but really, this is where these arguements get sillly....what am I supposed to say or do? Try and disupte this? How? There is no evidence backing it up....just claims that this is how it is soley based on your hatred for corporations...

There is some truth to that...WE value money more than most other countries...

There are many...but I hate religions

by who?

by who?


Always has, always will, that's not a capitalistic or an American thing...that's universal....those with the means can buy their way out of almost anything.

But really, again, what am I supposed to say?

Lolli

That's not really what I said. My point is, in order to make money, beat the competition, market new ideas/products - corporations (people) will do whatever it takes at whatever cost, some of those cost being outsourcing cheap labour in developing countries.

I'm not implying that any one model is perfect or the answer but capitalism isn't all that great as we are led to believe. It's not any less evil than socialism or communism which is akin to the anti-christ here.


What resources are we talking about here?


I don't think it's a good idea to be doing comparisons like that. First of all Europe's history is much longer and the US by no means has a good track record with its short history, so let's not even go down that road.

Are you for real? How about all the Chinese that pretty much have no choice and are forced into low paying jobs, living in substandard conditions?



You missed my point - we're obsessed with money and material goods here. The mentality of "what's the point of having money if you can't spend it" confirms this notion. You could buy time, experiences, memories...doesn't have to be material goods. So many North Americans work their butts off to pay off debts because of all the crap we buy that they don't need, instead of actually living life.

DanS.

I definetly think it is less evil than socialims/communism...especially after looking at those models track records...

namely land


okay...we don't have to....but I don't understand why them being around longer excuses what they did in the 20th century....

Yes I'm for real...are you? Have you seen how much the standards of living are increasing in China? Hundres of millions have made it out of poverty in less than a generation and it's the largest upward movement in such a short time in human history and it's exploitation?


okay...granted...but aside from pointing that out...I'm not sure what the point was or what could be done about it....

Lolli

I guess it's what you perspective you choose to look at it from and what things you chose ignore/select. I'm not talking about you specifically, just speaking generalities.

I suggest you watch China Rises. The stats/data put out by Chinese doesn't guarantee accuracy.

Well I was just replying to your comment about my reference to consumerism which is heavily influenced by corporations

DanS.

I'll watch it...and for the record I don't trust their government...


But I tried pimping the show on the discovery channel hosted by Ted Koppel...I think it gave a pretty good perspective on what's going on there(and here because of it) for better or worse...but really, when you look at how fast some of the cities are growing and what their lifestyle was like just 20 years ago....it's amazing(at least for those not still in the rural areas).

Just an interesting fact...their favorite car there....the Buick...

Lolli

If I remember correctly, this documentary took over 3 years to film in secrecy, by independent, that looks at life in China in all aspects - rich to poor, city to rural. Poverty, disease, lack of food/water, censorship...the list goes on and on. It's 3 part series (2 hours each) - very in depth look.