border-free EU- Is NAFTA next......???? - Page 4

DanS. · 02-04-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisbb

my dad goes to Mexico every year, no matter how hard i try to stop him. it depressed me when he said that people are happy when you give them a toothbrush

It is sad...and I said though...that is a situation that pre-existed NAFTA...NAFTA only brought global economies into the limelight so to speak.

The only way those people will get out of poverty is if we increase trade...creating jobs for them.

BillCosby · 02-04-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

It is sad...and I said though...that is a situation that pre-existed NAFTA...NAFTA only brought global economies into the limelight so to speak.

The only way those people will get out of poverty is if we increase trade...creating jobs for them.

You noted a "better nafta"............ Given the present nafta can their economy get better???

nafta like globilalization means different things to different ppl.........

DanS. · 02-04-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

You noted a "better nafta"............ Given the present nafta can their economy get better???

nafta like globilalization means different things to different ppl.........

I suppose it could get better. The problem that countries face is trying to absorb the displaced workers back into the work force. Which probabl mean programs to teach them new skills, help relocating or whatever.

Yeah I know NAFTA means different things to different people. It's the Americanization of foreign countries to many...a new form of imperialism. True? I don't think so...especially when you consider we've been getting our asses kicked lately in the global market.

BillCosby · 02-04-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

I suppose it could get better. The problem that countries face is trying to absorb the displaced workers back into the work force. Which probabl mean programs to teach them new skills, help relocating or whatever.

Yeah I know NAFTA means different things to different people. It's the Americanization of foreign countries to many...a new form of imperialism. True? I don't think so...especially when you consider we've been getting our asses kicked lately in the global market.

I have mixed feelings on the issue... Fewer on "globalization"........

Which I see much more as a western/usa/capitalistic ploy to allow the movement of capital (to them) & hinder the movement of ppl. THus controlling labor........

kblair7 · 02-04-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

lol............ Never worked before.......... Will they call it the bush wall or the clinton wall??

This kinda reminds me of the movie "marco Polo" in the 80's........ Marco is asking the Khan (or one of his sons I can't recall) whats up w/ the wall...... The khan replies it is to keep out the barbarians.......... Marco then asked who are the barbarians.... After a little embarrassed hesitation he replies "we are the barbarians".....

Way to ruin the joke

J/k yeah I think its ridiculous, midevil mentality, a fence is not going to keep them out, walls don't keep people out. What it reminds me of, is in that film version of the SNL skit, "coneheads" when Christopher Guest plays the crazy immigration guy, proposes to put electric collars on the immigrants and David Spade presses the button and the little model guy blows up...

On a more serious note, I have no problem with amnesty for illegals. I think we should have a more accessible path to citizenship. Latinos are a fine addition to the American mix and I think that its ridiculous protectionist bs. They don't take jobs from anyone, I have never met anyone who has lost their job to an illegal. Maybe if your flipping burgers for a living but I don't know what to say about that one.

Shake · 02-04-2008, 11:17 PM

The 'illegal immigrants' ruse is a new play on the Southern Strategy. Whites are now more afraid of Mexicans than they are of blacks. We're overthinking this: the entire point is fear of an ethnic group and an excuse to waste more money on cops and soldiers.

BillCosby · 02-05-2008, 01:04 PM

They are taking some jobs.......... There are Americans that are not working.......... & they are........ This is not complicated here.....

They are not coming over & getting a CEO job but on the lower end they have made ahuge impact...........

There is a large portion of this american population that is in jail........ There is also a large portion of this country on probation etc........

I will site one example..... COnstruction......... SPecificly roofing.....

If this person has a record swinging a hammer on a roof is not really going to endanger to public any more than if he is swing a hoe.....

The vast majority of the labors here are illegal..... There is not even an argument about it.......... Instead of housing "undesirables" in jail they can certainly do this work.... I am sure an slummed up 8th grade education could qualify one for it & It does not pay half bad......

hiring an illegal= no benefits need to be paid or the other taxes such as workmens comp. SSI etc............. he gets hurt ~shrug~ there are three that will replace him in a heart beat......... Not even an issue....

Hire the American jail bird & you got all the taxes............ & the fear of him or if he gets hurt..............$$$$$

The prob is not Mexicans....... It is Americans.... More than willing to hire them for obvious reasons & the rest of us that are complicit & benefiting in one way or another........

This is how bad & hypocritical the fucking situation is.......>>>>

Building a Border Fence… With Illegal Labor

It’s hard to imagine a clearer sign that current American immigration policy is a total crock:

The Golden State Fence company, a firm that builds border fencing to keep illegal immigrants out of the San Diego area, has just been fined $5 million for… wait for it… employing illegal immigrants to build its border fencing.

This is literally a bit from Carlos Mencia’s standup routine … come to life. Really. Why anyone writes fiction anymore is beyond me.

BlackVision · 02-05-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kblair7

Way to ruin the joke

J/k yeah I think its ridiculous, midevil mentality, a fence is not going to keep them out, walls don't keep people out.

Walls don't keep people out? Tell that to people in North Korea. There's a reason why practically all North Korean refugees that try to escape North Korea do so through the Chinese border rather than the DMZ. That's because the DMZ is the most heavily fortified border in the world. It's virtually impossible to make it through. Now given that the US/Mexican border is significantly larger than the DMZ, it is of course more difficult but the bottom line is fortified borders do work. Walls built in Israel have helped to drastically reduce bombings.

A fortified border is just one part of the equation however. Employer identification system that checks the legal status of employees need to be implemented. With severe fines in place to those that hire illegal immigrants. With the occasional random raids.

Quote:

On a more serious note, I have no problem with amnesty for illegals.

If this is the case why have a border at all? Why not just let anyone that wants to come in here just come in here? Why should illegal immigrants be given special privilege because they cut in line in front of everyone else? What message does this send to those that attempt to immigrate the legal way by filing documents in their native country? Amnesty completely sends the wrong message. A country needs to have control of its border. Illegal behavior should not be rewarded. People are still upset about the amnesty given during Reagan in which all it did was encourage more illegals to come here. It is not happening again.

Quote:

I think we should have a more accessible path to citizenship.

I agree. With strong emphasis placed on talent, skill, and education.

Quote:

Latinos are a fine addition to the American mix and I think that its ridiculous protectionist bs.

This is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what ethnicity an illegal immigrant is. Illegal is illegal.

Quote:

They don't take jobs from anyone, I have never met anyone who has lost their job to an illegal. Maybe if your flipping burgers for a living but I don't know what to say about that one.

Let's say hypothetically this is true. Why would you want jobs taken away by the poorest Americans? Why do you want to attack the blue collar workers of America who need jobs and paychecks to support their family and now have to work for subwages and be unemployed due to illegal immigration?

kblair7 · 02-05-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackVision

Walls don't keep people out? Tell that to people in North Korea. There's a reason why practically all North Korean refugees that try to escape North Korea do so through the Chinese border rather than the DMZ. That's because the DMZ is the most heavily fortified border in the world. It's virtually impossible to make it through. Now given that the US/Mexican border is significantly larger than the DMZ, it is of course more difficult but the bottom line is fortified borders do work. Walls built in Israel have helped to drastically reduce bombings.

A fortified border is just one part of the equation however. Employer identification system that checks the legal status of employees need to be implemented. With severe fines in place to those that hire illegal immigrants. With the occasional random raids.

If this is the case why have a border at all? Why not just let anyone that wants to come in here just come in here? Why should illegal immigrants be given special privilege because they cut in line in front of everyone else? What message does this send to those that attempt to immigrate the legal way by filing documents in their native country? Amnesty completely sends the wrong message. A country needs to have control of its border. Illegal behavior should not be rewarded. People are still upset about the amnesty given during Reagan in which all it did was encourage more illegals to come here. It is not happening again.

I agree. With strong emphasis placed on talent, skill, and education.

This is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what ethnicity an illegal immigrant is. Illegal is illegal.

Let's say hypothetically this is true. Why would you want jobs taken away by the poorest Americans? Why do you want to attack the blue collar workers of America who need jobs and paychecks to support their family and now have to work for subwages and be unemployed due to illegal immigration?

Perhaps, I wasn't really being serious. Okay. Well, DMZ is one thing, and I don't really see it as a apt comparison to the US/Mexican border. The DMZ is a DEMILITARIZED zone and no-mans land, a stretch riddled with explosive devices, among other things. No one goes there except unmanned drones, period. North Koreans are leaving their country because they would rather face the Chinese military than starve and be hung at the hands of that maniac. I suppose the situations are similar, parts of Mexico are ruled by drug cartels and gangs, the government has very little control over their activities. There are a mydrid of reasons for why they come here. Still, I think that amnesty should be granted in the form of a Green card for people living here over 6+ years. People who have established families, and jobs, own homes etc.
I think fundamentally that there is no reason why the process for citizenship should take so long. I assure you it takes less time for certain people to get Green cards. I doubt a Western European with money would have to wait 8 years for a Green card.
Amnesty does not send the wrong message, since no matter what "message" we send people, they will still try to come here illegally, since their is no viable legal path to citizenship. For every 10 we send back another 100 get in. It's not like it matters anyways, since I have yet to meet anyone who has lot their job to an illegal, but that doesn't say much since its been almost 15 years since I traveled in circles where people are making minimum wage.

Shake · 02-07-2008, 04:23 PM

The best case for amnesty is that they aren't going anywhere. Wal-Mart will not stop hiring illegals. Just forgive those who are here and bust the balls of those who try from now on. To go round up millions of people is fruitless.

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