bhutto dead - Page 3

The_Heretic · 12-28-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refuge51

Now they're saying when Bhutto jerked her head, she hit her head against the vehicle, on a lever and that's what killed her.http://www.cnn.com/

That from Pakistani government officials. I'm not takin' their word for shit. Until a objective investigation or hard evidence proves the exact cause of death we don't know. Right now they're trying to distract everyone from the fact that while others might've orchestrated the attack they could've offered up REAL security and didn't.

The_Heretic · 12-28-2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPRINGFIELD

First of all, Saddam Hussein's execution did not make for a sad day! Especially not in Iraq where he killed and brutalized and repressed uncounted millions. He was an evil, horrible human being. Don't ever think any different of him. I saw firsthand what he did. Second, "we" as in "The United States" didn't start anything. Strife has been the way of life in the middle east long before we were even a country. The only time there was ever any peace is when they were under somone's bootheel. I believe Churchill said "The arabs are either at your feet or at your throat". Seems to be the case for most of recorded history.

Actually Churchhill was a racist towards Arabs and Africans alike. He migth be a decent human being on other issues, but when it comes to those regions he had nothing but bigoted disdain.

Most innovations and sources of knowledge that kick started the Rennaissance in Europe originated from the middle east. And while many regions inhereted a treature trove of knowledge, technology, infrastructive and social institions Arabs, more than most, made something of it and built on what they got. It's not until five centuries ago that Europe reached the middle east's level of sophistication and civility.

Then, of course, the Europeans went south and destroyed whatever they could while fighting over a city they had no business being in: Jerusalem.

W.M.DEEEZ · 12-28-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPRINGFIELD

First of all, Saddam Hussein's execution did not make for a sad day! Especially not in Iraq where he killed and brutalized and repressed uncounted millions. He was an evil, horrible human being. Don't ever think any different of him. I saw firsthand what he did. Second, "we" as in "The United States" didn't start anything. Strife has been the way of life in the middle east long before we were even a country. The only time there was ever any peace is when they were under somone's bootheel. I believe Churchill said "The arabs are either at your feet or at your throat". Seems to be the case for most of recorded history.

We are in agreement that Saddam was evil. Much of the brutalization you mention, was a result of Bush senior advising Iraqis to rise up against Hussein...then, we left them to perish under his chemical attacks.

Are you suggesting that we travel the world, and murder all of those leaders who mistreat their citzens?

Save for the oil, why do we care what the hell the middle east has been doing to themselves for centuries? What say we let them kill each other, without the US cherrypicking the unruly leaders that won't tow our line?

The way in which we systematically intervened in Iraq, destroyed their infrastructure, and ultimately commited murder , is a sad event.

No different than what has just happened in Pakistan.

Yes...WE most definitely started something by seriously destabilizing an entire region. Now, we sit back and watch as anarchy metastacizes, further increasing the opportunity for another attack on US soil.

SPRINGFIELD · 12-28-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.M.DEEEZ

Quote:

We are in agreement that Saddam was evil. Much of the brutalization you mention, was a result of Bush senior advising Iraqis to rise up against Hussein...then, we left them to perish under his chemical attacks.

Some of it was because of that, we screwed the Kurds real bad. That is truly one shameful thing our nation did. I personally apologised to many Kurdish soldiers for that when I was over there. We would start talking politics, and first thing I would say is "I am so sorry our government did that to you" They still somehow choose to be our ally.

Quote:

Are you suggesting that we travel the world, and murder all of those leaders who mistreat their citzens?

No, not mistreat. But butcher? Well.....yeah. It's our duty to liberate the oppressed. We have that power. So does Europe. If not us, then who? Don't even get me started on Darfur!

Quote:

Save for the oil, why do we care what the hell the middle east has been doing to themselves for centuries? What say we let them kill each other, without the US cherrypicking the unruly leaders that won't tow our line?

Well, until we find something better, we do need the oil. And we need a stable and reliable source for said oil. Strategic planning like that is what's kept us in business for the last 200 or so years. Also, we don't want to have nuclear arms in the hands of our enemies. That too is just good business.

Quote:

The way in which we systematically intervened in Iraq, destroyed their infrastructure, and ultimately commited murder , is a sad event.

Well, their infrastructure wasn't all that good to begin with. You have to understand, Baghdad was not New York, or Prague. There are parts of town that don't have running water. Open sewage flowing through the streets. Overcrowding. Jerry rigged electricity, hand-run wires criss-crossing the alleys and streets everywhere. They burn their garbage in the streets. It was a shithole before we even got there. Not to mention, still half destroyed from the Iranians.

Quote:

No different than what has just happened in Pakistan.

Yes...WE most definitely started something by seriously destabilizing an entire region. Now, we sit back and watch as anarchy metastacizes, further increasing the opportunity for another attack on US soil

.

Actually, I would have to say that Iraq itself is becoming more stable. Finally.Afghanistan as well. As far as Pakistan goes, some of the stabilization burden has to fall on Pakistan's neighbors. They are self-destructing right now, and if they can't get it together, restore order and unfuck themselves then India had better get in there and disable their nukes, or someone will start pushing buttons.

.................................................. ....

Teri B. · 12-28-2007, 12:21 PM

What an extraordinary woman.

Rest in Peace.

Refuge51 · 12-28-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Heretic

That from Pakistani government officials. I'm not takin' their word for shit. Until a objective investigation or hard evidence proves the exact cause of death we don't know. Right now they're trying to distract everyone from the fact that while others might've orchestrated the attack they could've offered up REAL security and didn't.

It's what I say too. The security should have been inpenatrable.

Free Parking · 12-28-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refuge51

It's what I say too. The security should have been inpenatrable.

From what I heard, though I could be wrong, she refused extra security because she didn't trust Musharraf's security guys.

Refuge51 · 12-28-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Parking

From what I heard, though I could be wrong, she refused extra security because she didn't trust Musharraf's security guys.

You could be right too. Seems it's quite easy to make up charges when politics is involved.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2228796.stm
excerpt:
None of about 18 corruption and criminal cases against Mr Zardari has been proved in court after 10 years. But he served at least eight years in jail.

He was freed on bail in 2004, amid accusations that the charges against him were weak and going nowhere.

Ms Bhutto also steadfastly denied all the corruption charges against her, which she said were politically motivated.

She faced corruption charges in at least five cases, all without a conviction, until amnestied in October 2007.

General Musharraf
President Pervez Musharraf granted Ms Bhutto and others an amnesty

She was convicted in 1999 for failing to appear in court, but the Supreme Court later overturned that judgement.

Soon after the conviction, audiotapes of conversations between the judge and some top aides of then Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif were discovered that showed that the judge had been under pressure to convict.

CosmicRocker · 12-28-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refuge51

It's what I say too. The security should have been inpenatrable.

I'm not saying she got enough security. Her letter to Wolf Blitzen reveals the details.

However, she DID stick her head out of the sunroof of an armoured vehicle.
The armour only works if one is inside it.

This is gonna take awhile to figure out, and may never be fully understood,
like the Kennedy assassination

The_Heretic · 12-29-2007, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPRINGFIELD

.................................................. ....

Have you ever seen the movie Syrianna? That'll piss you right the fuck off about the middle east and the U.S.

12-28-2007, 12:21 PM	#25 (permalink)
Teri B. Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,315 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 36 Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts	What an extraordinary woman. Rest in Peace.
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