hotair

Back in the day, when the “West Bank” really was an “Occupied Territory” The Jordanians used to force the Israelis out of their settlements using artillery.

Today Abbas accesses Israel of “Ethnic Cleansing”, and “Annihilation” because the property taxes in Jerusalem keep going up.

The concept of “Genocide through inflation” is just staggering.

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So long, and thanks for all of the fish!!!

The_Heretic

Don't kid yourself, the IDF still is pumping rounds in kids for throwing rocks. And, of course, the Israeli public is being ignored when they say they want out of the occipied territories and want an end to brutalizing Palestinians. The Israeli public gets ignored the same way we do here by extremists in our government.

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John McCain: "He's in Iraq... with a few centuries to kill."

hotair

It is not the children throwing the rocks, that is a problem. It is the people with the AK’s, who are shooting at the Police, when they show up to deal with the rock throwers.

Mideast peace talks marred by 'Israeli slight'
Low-ranking official sent as U.S. general holds first 'road map' meeting

updated 12:02 p.m. CT, Fri., March. 14, 2008
JERUSALEM - President Bush's Mideast peace monitor sat down with Israeli and Palestinian representatives Friday for the first time since talks formally resumed nearly four months ago, but the atmosphere was clouded amid claims of an Israeli slight.

The Palestinians sent their prime minister, Salam Fayyad, while the Israelis dispatched a lower-level representative, Defense Ministry official Amos Gilad — a decision the Palestinians said showed a lack of seriousness.

The U.S. envoy, Lt. Gen. William Fraser III, must confront an upsurge in violence between the sides and the fact that neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians have fulfilled their obligations under the peace plan promoted by Bush.

Fraser's appointment was touted as a central feature of the U.S.-sponsored peace talks launched last November at Annapolis, Md. Those talks have made little apparent progress so far and critics have charged that it's taken a long time for Fraser to assume his role as the key arbiter of Palestinian and Israeli compliance with their obligations under the international peace plan known as the "road map."

In the plan's first stage, the Palestinians were to dismantle armed groups. The Israelis were to freeze construction in West Bank settlements and remove some of the more than 100 unauthorized outposts set up by settlers since the 1990s.

Israel recently announced several new building projects in east Jerusalem and the West Bank, areas the Palestinians want for their future state. The Israeli moves angered the Palestinians and were criticized by the U.S. and the international community, and Israeli defense officials said they were concerned Fraser might reprimand Israel at Friday's meeting.

Representatives of the sides met Friday morning at Jerusalem's King David Hotel. Sitting opposite Fayyad was Gilad, not his boss, former Israeli prime minister and current Defense Minister Ehud Barak.

The Palestinians' chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat, criticized that decision. The defense minister should have been there as a gesture of respect, Erekat said.

"It would have been very appropriate for Barak to go. Maybe Barak couldn't go because he is busy planning more (settlement construction) and more incursions," Erekat said.

'Frank exchange'
Israel's Defense Ministry released no official statement after the meeting. The U.S. Consulate in Jerusalem said the sides had discussed "where the parties are not meeting their commitments and the reasons why," and said the meeting included "a cordial but frank exchange of views."

Before the meeting began, Gilad described it only in general terms, telling Israel Radio that it was "part of the general dialogue between us and the Palestinians and us and the Americans" and part of an effort to "make progress in the peace process."

At the Annapolis summit, the sides agreed that the U.S. would monitor implementation, and Fraser, an air force general, was given the job.

The meeting was the first time Fraser has met with both sides and the first time Israeli and Palestinian teams have met since the most recent spike in violence began in late February.

The bloodshed saw an upsurge in Palestinian rocket fire from Gaza and an Israeli air and ground operation in the northern part of the territory in which more than 120 people were killed, including many civilians. In Jerusalem, a Palestinian gunmen killed eight Jewish students at a rabbinical seminary, and Israeli raids in the West Bank this week killed five militants, including one from a violent offshoot of Abbas' Fatah movement.

Before Annapolis, Israeli-Palestinian peace talks had been frozen during seven years of violence. Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert pledged to try to reach a peace agreement by the end of this year.

On Friday, Palestinians launched another four rockets from Gaza into Israel, causing no injuries, the Israeli military said.


Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed


The “Palestinians” are now offended, that Israel is apparently starting to take these talks as serious as they do!!!


. . . the Palestinians were to dismantle armed groups. . . .
Yet rockets, and motor shells fall on Israel every day!!!
In Jerusalem, a Palestinian gunmen killed eight Jewish students at a rabbinical seminary classroom.

“. . . Israel recently announced several new building projects in east Jerusalem and the West Bank, areas the Palestinians want for their future state. The Israeli moves angered the Palestinians and were criticized by the U.S. and the international community, and Israeli defense officials said they were concerned Fraser might reprimand Israel at Friday's meeting. . . . “
The peace process hits a cross-road of sorts.
The Israeli people are getting tired of always being the only ones to comply with agreements. While the world continues to make up excuses why the “Palestinians” should not be required to hold up their end of any agreements, all the while they continue to criticize Israel for not holding up their end.

Because of this double standard, a growing number of Israelis are feeling that the entire ‘peace process’ has become a total waste of time.

Who are you trying to kid???

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So long, and thanks for all of the fish!!!

The_Heretic

No, it's the IDF soldiers who shoot kids for throwing rocks when nothing else is going on. That shit still happens. And the Israeli "settlers" [squatters] in the occupied territories insist that a rock is as dangerous as a bullet[ then procede to shoot kids for throwing rocks and also shoot adult Palestinians who on their way to work and not visibly doing anything dangerous.

It should be noted that Jr.'s "plan" puts all the blame on Palestine's government and forced them to take all the first steps with absolutely no guarantee those steps will be reciprocated by the Israeli government in turn.

So no wonder they don't fulfill their end.

The part in bold is precisely what I mean about putting all the heavy lifting on Palestine's government. They don't have sufficient enforcement power against the armed groups, and in fact are grossly out gunned by the arm groups many times over. The blockaides that the U.S. and Israel put in place make that even harder, and the only way for those to be lifted is if the Palestinian government manages to do what's physically impossible for them. Ergo, a plan designed to fail with blame already assigned to the Palestinian government.

Not simply many civilians, the vast majority of these were civilians. Yet another problem is that the U.S. is playing the moderator between the two, when clearly the U.S. is blatantly biased. A good first step would be to ban U.S. intervention of any form [especially the arm sales variety] and look for an objective moderator.

You misread the article. It's clear Israel's government does not take them seriously and makes every effort to backhand the Palestinians while blaming them for standing clsoe enough to be backhanded.

It's not everyday. And as explained it's physically impossible for the Palestinian government to reduce any violence at all. They're simply under equipped and under trained for the job. That can't be resolved without funds, which the Israel government controls. So it's still in the government of Israel's power alone to change anything.

Maybe if the IDF would set a better example. In all the killing of innocent civilians the vast majority are Palestinian killed by Israel's military. That's an injustice that hasn't been discussed much less resolved in decades.

Except the Israeli government rarely holds up their end of the deal. They're just as quick to refuse compliance and even outright violate agreements in order to snatch as much more of Palestinian as they can. Even Israel's own citizens have openly protested against this aggresive expansionism and government sanctioned violence, yet their government continues to flout the public will.

I think you should ask who does the Israeli government think they're trying to kid. You're barely getting half the picture here.

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John McCain: "He's in Iraq... with a few centuries to kill."

Dawnling

take away all the words and it's just people over-breeding
and then being horrible to each other as a result

BillCosby

Well I see a small prob here....... bush2........... Why not the UN. Or the EU............ Personally I would pick the Turks or Mongols....

I notice you mention what the Palestinians didn't do........

Tell you what... You go stop crime in the south BronX for a month.......

Lower the murder rate a couple notches..........

Or just make it rain on Tuesday in Sacramento & I will believe you see them having the power or will to do any of that as another brick is added to the wall.......................

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Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror

hotair

You might want to take a look at the autopsy reports (which are public record, by the way) on these children first:
1.) They were shot in the back.
2.) The wounds are from 7.62mm bullets.

The second item is rather important, since the IDF do not use 7.62 ammunition. At all! For anything! The M-16's issued to the police, are modified to fire 22cal. Rubber bullets. The Uzi’s issued to the military, only fire 9mm Ball ammunition. The only common weapon in use, that fires 7.62mm FMJ rounds are the AK’s used by the Arabs.

First: No one has (yet) assigned any blame to anyone.
Second: It is not just Jr’s plan that calls for these steps to be taken. They are intrinsic to the Oslo Accords, as well as to every other proposed plan (with the single exception of the so called “Arab Plan” (which I might add, calls for Israel to give up its claim of sovereignty)). It is a matter of trust. The Arabs have proven, time and again, that they cannot be trusted.
Third: There are guarantees from the Israelis. As well as a very well established history of the Israelis keeping their agreements. Even when they are the only ones who do keep their agreements.
Fourth: It is a matter of simple navigation. You cannot get to point “C”, without first going through points “A”, and “B” first!!!

And . . . Yet . . . . The “Palestinians” have enough guns, bombs, rockets, and mortar shells to keep killing Israelis!!!

You raise two interesting points here.
1.) The US is (sometimes) moderating here, because it is the only government that both sides trust. Plus . . . The US is the only government that is even willing to try to do the job. No one else wants it!!!
2.) You might want to take a little closer look at your “arms sales” angle. In particular: 1.) US - Israeli treaties. 2.) Well . . . You might want to look up the term “money laundering”! 3.) You might want to do some patent searches, on the more critical components of the items being “sold” to the Israelis. 4.) You might want to get a better idea of how the stock market works. Specifically: How many companies, and corporations are owned by the Israeli government. (Hint: When you own enough stock, you essentially own the company/corporation)

I assure you that I have not misread anything. If anything . . . You have misread me!!! What I said was: That the Israelis are talking these meetings as seriously as the Arabs are.

And . . . Yet . . . Again . .. The “Palestinians” have enough guns, bombs, rockets, and mortar shells to keep killing Israelis!!! It is a wonderful fiction. But, the simple fact is: The only people who have the power to change anything (as you put it) are the Arabs themselves. Which is not to say, that the Israeli military does not have the “power” to end things (which I admit would be a form of change I suppose).

I am curious here. Just exactly how does one kill a terrorist, without harming the “innocent civilian” being used to shield them? Do you think that maybe this is why they hide behind civilians (especially children)?

What in the hell are you talking about??? Name one agreement that the Israelis have violated. The key word here is agreement, mind you. Just because the UN tries to illegally impose restrictions on the Israeli government, does not in any stretch of the imagination, constitute an agreement of any kind.

The only boarders (for example) that the Israelis have ever agreed to, are the current (post 1967 war) boarders. As originally established in the original 1946 partition plan. Which I might add, is the only partition plan that has ever been agreed to by everyone ‘concerned’!!!

Gaza, and the “West Bank” have not been occupied since the end of the 1967 war. As for the “Settlement Rebuilding Program” in the “West Bank”, the Israeli government has (to date) only rebuilt (some, though not all of the more than 1012) settlements that were destroyed under the Jordanian occupation.

As for the so called “illegal” settlement activity? You might want to try to think of them as negotiation incentives.

As for “the public will” business. You are (half) right there. The Israeli army has not yet launched a full scale war, against anyone . . . Yet!!! Of course, if the Likud party continues to gain support (at its current rate), that will change very quickly.



No . . . I think that I really do have the whole picture here. I assure you, I would not disagree with you, if you were not wrong!!!

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So long, and thanks for all of the fish!!!

PursuitOfHappinessParty

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It puts the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again.

BillCosby

Same bush logic: It was right to get sadaam...... Even if it means having 2 million in their country disposed... 2 million in surrounding countries & a fucking million dead IraQi civilians..... It was worth it..

One Israeli injured by a rocket=150 dead innocent Palestinian women & children & maybe a couple of "terrorist"........ It is worth it......

It is worth it cause those lives have little of no value........

Imagine taking such logic to our own citizens or for that matter an Israeli citizen..... A British citizen............

In "our country" a kidnapper/terrorist holds several hostages in a room................ We simply send in a helicopter & blow the whole apartment complex up.......... We got our man/terrorist.........

Nope, this is not done inside the USA, Israel or Britain.... It is only done were the lives of the "collateral damage" is irrelevant...........

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Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror

The_Heretic

That all depends on who conducts the autopsy. Besides, I'm also referring to shooting incidences where only the IDF are firing and the only return fire are rocks. Read Robert Fisks reports on this.

As for the rest, seriously! Read up on this, and not just U.S. news outlets.

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John McCain: "He's in Iraq... with a few centuries to kill."