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Old 03-31-2008, 01:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Just when you might think that things could not get any worse.

Israel pledges to remove West Bank roadblocks
Announcement comes as Rice meets with Israel, Palestinian leaders

updated 9:24 a.m. CT, Sun., March. 30, 2008

JERUSALEM, Israel - Israel and the Palestinians agreed Sunday to a series of "concrete steps" aimed at paving the way for a final peace agreement later this year, beginning with Israel's pledge to remove some West Bank roadblocks.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, visiting the region for the second time this month in hopes of energize faltering talks, said the moves "constitute a very good start to improving" a Palestinian economy crippled by the Israeli restrictions.

Under the plan that Rice announced, Israel will remove about 50 roadblocks, upgrade checkpoints to speed up the movement of Palestinians through the West Bank and give Palestinians more security responsibility in the town of Jenin with an eye toward looking at "other areas in turn."

The Israelis also pledged to increase the number of travel and work permits it gives Palestinians and to support economic projects in Palestinian towns.

In return, the Palestinians promised to improve policing of Jenin "to provide law and order, and work to prevent terror," according to a State Department statement released shortly before Rice spoke.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian Prime Minister Salaam Fayyad consented to the steps at a joint meeting with Rice earlier Sunday. They agreed to pursue the measures with "special, immediate emphasis and work," the statement said.

"We've been told that this is going to start and, hopefully even be completed in a relatively short period of time," Rice told reporters. "I am expecting it to happen very, very soon."

"We will be monitoring and verifying," she added.

The agreement includes:

Removing 50 travel barriers in and around Jenin, Tulkarem, Qalqiliya and Ramallah.
Dismantling of one permanent roadblock.
Deploying 700 Jordanian-trained Palestinian police in Jenin and allowing them to take delivery of armored vehicles.
Raising the the number of Palestinian businessmen allowed into Israel to 1,500 from 1,000.
Increasing the number of work permits for Palestinian laborers by 5,000 from its current number of 18,500.
Building new housing for Palestinians in 25 villages.
Connecting Palestinian villages to the Israeli power grid.
Israeli support for large-scale economic development programs and encouragement of foreign investment.

Neither Barak nor Fayyad commented on the developments when they appeared at a brief photo opportunity with Rice after their meeting.

One Palestinian official said he welcomed any improvement, but that Israel's moves were "too little, too late."

"We want Israel to move quickly in removing these obstacles that make no sense and make the lives of the Palestinians difficult," said Samir Abdullah, the Palestinian planning minister.

Israel maintains hundreds of checkpoints, roadblocks and other travel restrictions in the West Bank, and says they are needed to stop suicide bombers. The Palestinians say the restrictions are excessive and have stifled their economy. They have made removal of the checkpoints a priority as the two sides, with U.S. backing, try to negotiate a peace agreement by year's end.

Rice had said she was looking for "meaningful" steps to put in place the stalled U.S.-supported plan that envisions the creation of an independent Palestinian state through concessions on both sides.

"There has not been enough momentum," she said. "This is a start in terms of delivering on some of those obligations."



© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



I pray that the PA knows what it is doing!!! Because I know that Bush is completely clueless.

Hamas is going to have something to say about all of this.

If the PA misses just one attack? They are going to give Netanyahu the PM’s office.

Then it is all going to become a whole new ball game.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hotair View Post
If the PA misses just one attack? They are going to give Netanyahu the PM’s office.

Then it is all going to become a whole new ball game.
That's the idea. The Israeli government sets up a situation where all the responsibility and heavy lifting is on the Palestinian side, while Israel's government can continue to deprive Palestinians of their human rights until after the Palestinian govenment does the impossible.
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Heretic View Post
That's the idea. The Israeli government sets up a situation where all the responsibility and heavy lifting is on the Palestinian side, while Israel's government can continue to deprive Palestinians of their human rights until after the Palestinian govenment does the impossible.
While I don't think the PA should be responsible for Hamas/Gaza, they should be responsible for policing Palestinians living in the West Bank and living under their control. Isn't that better than the alternative?
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair View Post
Israel pledges to remove West Bank roadblocks
Announcement comes as Rice meets with Israel, Palestinian leaders

updated 9:24 a.m. CT, Sun., March. 30, 2008

JERUSALEM, Israel - Israel and the Palestinians agreed Sunday to a series of "concrete steps" aimed at paving the way for a final peace agreement later this year, beginning with Israel's pledge to remove some West Bank roadblocks.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, visiting the region for the second time this month in hopes of energize faltering talks, said the moves "constitute a very good start to improving" a Palestinian economy crippled by the Israeli restrictions.

Under the plan that Rice announced, Israel will remove about 50 roadblocks, upgrade checkpoints to speed up the movement of Palestinians through the West Bank and give Palestinians more security responsibility in the town of Jenin with an eye toward looking at "other areas in turn."

The Israelis also pledged to increase the number of travel and work permits it gives Palestinians and to support economic projects in Palestinian towns.

In return, the Palestinians promised to improve policing of Jenin "to provide law and order, and work to prevent terror," according to a State Department statement released shortly before Rice spoke.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian Prime Minister Salaam Fayyad consented to the steps at a joint meeting with Rice earlier Sunday. They agreed to pursue the measures with "special, immediate emphasis and work," the statement said.

"We've been told that this is going to start and, hopefully even be completed in a relatively short period of time," Rice told reporters. "I am expecting it to happen very, very soon."

"We will be monitoring and verifying," she added.

The agreement includes:

Removing 50 travel barriers in and around Jenin, Tulkarem, Qalqiliya and Ramallah.
Dismantling of one permanent roadblock.
Deploying 700 Jordanian-trained Palestinian police in Jenin and allowing them to take delivery of armored vehicles.
Raising the the number of Palestinian businessmen allowed into Israel to 1,500 from 1,000.
Increasing the number of work permits for Palestinian laborers by 5,000 from its current number of 18,500.
Building new housing for Palestinians in 25 villages.
Connecting Palestinian villages to the Israeli power grid.
Israeli support for large-scale economic development programs and encouragement of foreign investment.

Neither Barak nor Fayyad commented on the developments when they appeared at a brief photo opportunity with Rice after their meeting.

One Palestinian official said he welcomed any improvement, but that Israel's moves were "too little, too late."

"We want Israel to move quickly in removing these obstacles that make no sense and make the lives of the Palestinians difficult," said Samir Abdullah, the Palestinian planning minister.

Israel maintains hundreds of checkpoints, roadblocks and other travel restrictions in the West Bank, and says they are needed to stop suicide bombers. The Palestinians say the restrictions are excessive and have stifled their economy. They have made removal of the checkpoints a priority as the two sides, with U.S. backing, try to negotiate a peace agreement by year's end.

Rice had said she was looking for "meaningful" steps to put in place the stalled U.S.-supported plan that envisions the creation of an independent Palestinian state through concessions on both sides.

"There has not been enough momentum," she said. "This is a start in terms of delivering on some of those obligations."



© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



I pray that the PA knows what it is doing!!! Because I know that Bush is completely clueless.

Hamas is going to have something to say about all of this.

If the PA misses just one attack? They are going to give Netanyahu the PM’s office.

Then it is all going to become a whole new ball game.
The PA won't be able to stop every attack but putting them in control of the areas they already control makes sense. It's a way to move forward. Like I said to Heretic, what's the alternative?

Although I agree wth you that if an attack does happen, Netanyahu will probably gain more support.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair View Post
[i]

I pray that the PA knows what it is doing!!! Because I know that Bush is completely clueless.

Hamas is going to have something to say about all of this.

If the PA misses just one attack? They are going to give Netanyahu the PM’s office.

Then it is all going to become a whole new ball game.
I would say bush2 is not totally clueless I think he can now find a couple countries on a map that start w/ I.............
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by chambers92 View Post
While I don't think the PA should be responsible for Hamas/Gaza, they should be responsible for policing Palestinians living in the West Bank and living under their control. Isn't that better than the alternative?
Here's the rub. Even in the West Bank there's Hamas, Hezballah and Islamic Jihad, each one of which grossly outguns the Palestinian government [I think we can ditch terms like "authority" not that they're a real government system]. So when the Palestinian police get into their first firefight post this agreement they'll- of course, be forced to withdraw or lose more lives and still be blamed for "failing to stop" terrorism never mind they had ZERO chance of success.

This is a sweatheart deal for the Israeli government hardliners and squatters in Palestinian land. The latter can even shoot whomever and if anyone shoots back it becomes the Palestinians fault regardless how justified their self defense.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here's the rub. Even in the West Bank there's Hamas, Hezballah and Islamic Jihad, each one of which grossly outguns the Palestinian government [I think we can ditch terms like "authority" not that they're a real government system]. So when the Palestinian police get into their first firefight post this agreement they'll- of course, be forced to withdraw or lose more lives and still be blamed for "failing to stop" terrorism never mind they had ZERO chance of success.

This is a sweatheart deal for the Israeli government hardliners and squatters in Palestinian land. The latter can even shoot whomever and if anyone shoots back it becomes the Palestinians fault regardless how justified their self defense.
Talk about jumping into the deep end. This is Jenin that we are talking about here. With untested training, and troops.

With so few, untested troops (only 700?). (It is my guess that, this is all that they have available.)

Then there is the question of the level of training being provided here. It is not as though the Jordanians have an established track record, doing this sort of thing.

Personally, I expected the PA to start with some place were they would have half a chance of success, like Bethlehem maybe. Some place were they could get their feet wet, as it where. Get some experience, and build some confidence.

I know that it is what they agreed to, in the Oslo Accords. Take responsibility for the people that they want to govern. But I think that starting in Gaza first, would have given them a better chance of success. Anywhere but Jenin!

At some point the PA is going to have to deal with Hamas, and Gaza. Hamas knows this, as well as everyone else. At least if they had started with Gaza, once it is over (one way or the other) the rest would be down hill. By putting Hamas off till later, it only stacks the odds in Hamas’ favor.

I do not have any real problem with Israel accepting this one. It is a gift, from Bush. Though I would like to know, just how much pressure Rice had to put on the PA, to force them to agree to this.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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While I don't think the PA should be responsible for Hamas/Gaza, they should be responsible for policing Palestinians living in the West Bank and living under their control. Isn't that better than the alternative?
With the exception of the “Hamas/Gaza” thing, I agree completely. But . . . Starting with Jenin???!!!???

As for Gaza. I very seriously doubt that Israel is going to go for a three nation solution. Which puts Gaza in the hands of the PA, or no where.

As I said before! I pray that the PA knows what it is doing!!!
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Talk about jumping into the deep end. This is Jenin that we are talking about here. With untested training, and troops.

With so few, untested troops (only 700?). (It is my guess that, this is all that they have available.)

Then there is the question of the level of training being provided here. It is not as though the Jordanians have an established track record, doing this sort of thing.

Personally, I expected the PA to start with some place were they would have half a chance of success, like Bethlehem maybe. Some place were they could get their feet wet, as it where. Get some experience, and build some confidence.

I know that it is what they agreed to, in the Oslo Accords. Take responsibility for the people that they want to govern. But I think that starting in Gaza first, would have given them a better chance of success. Anywhere but Jenin!
It's worse than that. The police would be shooting at other Palestinians on the percieved behalf of Israel. That's not much of a motivation for them.

Quote:
At some point the PA is going to have to deal with Hamas, and Gaza. Hamas knows this, as well as everyone else. At least if they had started with Gaza, once it is over (one way or the other) the rest would be down hill. By putting Hamas off till later, it only stacks the odds in Hamas’ favor.
See, this isn't going to work. The Palestinian government are simply unable to deal any one of these groups. They never will be, and that's precisely the reason why it's the condition they must fulfill. The whole "peace" process is designed to fail STILL. It's a poorly disguised means to suck up more Palestinian land.

Quote:
I do not have any real problem with Israel accepting this one. It is a gift, from Bush. Though I would like to know, just how much pressure Rice had to put on the PA, to force them to agree to this.
I'm sure it was a damned if you do and damned more if you don't deal. And again, there's a difference between Israeli people and their government. The public of Israel is ardently against settlements in Palestine, they're against mass punishement and they're not pleased by the fact their government blatantly defies the public will.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Heretic View Post
It's worse than that. The police would be shooting at other Palestinians on the percieved behalf of Israel. That's not much of a motivation for them.

See, this isn't going to work. The Palestinian government are simply unable to deal any one of these groups. They never will be, and that's precisely the reason why it's the condition they must fulfill. The whole "peace" process is designed to fail STILL. It's a poorly disguised means to suck up more Palestinian land.



.
I'm still not clear on what you think the alternative is? While I agree it's sort of a no win situation, it's also a first step towards self governing. There's really only two alternatives, the Palestinians govern and police their own people or the Israelis continue to do it. I say let them police their own people ( On the West Bank) with the help of Jordan and perhaps some other Arab countries. Again, starting slowly and not to initially include Gaza. Things might get worse before they get better but it's better than having Israel continue to do it.

Last edited by chambers92; 04-01-2008 at 09:04 AM.
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