Hate laws a reasonable limit on free speech - Page 2

Malkavian · 06-22-2008, 01:07 PM

While that guy is correct about Muslim breeding, Western (Japan included) lack thereof would be far less problematic if they had better immigration/assimilation policies... Fitting even more population into Europe with already high population densities is pretty crazy... Much like elderly care, all those 'youths' require care as well, and this constitutes a large drain on country's resources. As far as growth rates are concerned, there's a simple question - where would you like to live:

1. Japan (low birth rate, balanced ratio of productive citizens to dependents -that 50 year old may not be able to push a plow, but he's still good as an office worker or research scientist)

2. Yemen (high birth rate, high number of dependents to productive citizens).

For most normal people, the answer is Fuck Yemen! And that includes quite a few Yemenis.

michelemichele · 06-22-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrrp

Certainly...This is part of a discussion my brother and I had when he got back from his last tour.

Excellent, thanks very much

Quote:

Think about how hopeless things are for the average Iraqi teenager in this day and age. There are no city services to speak of, no trash collection, clean water, safe schools, power or telephones.

The only schools that are open are pretty much just madrasas, and we are fairly sure they are teaching hard line Islamic extremism instead of math and so forth.

There are no jobs for these people to hold either because the money isn't there or no-one wants to get thier heads cut off for being an Iraqi cop.

Shopping is a dangerous experience, death squads, IEDs and kidnap-for-hire is more of a business now than, say, maintaining a store front in Ramadi.

Now, on top of all this, throw in the most reliable assault rifle in the world, the AK-47. I can teach anyone to use and maintain the thing in 3 hours, including field stripping and cleaning. It will fire with all kinds of crap in it, and you can clean it well enough with knotted bootlaces dipped in motor oil. The Soviets produced millions, maybe even billions of those rifles and has sent them all over the globe. Hell, the national flag of Mosambique even features one.

So, when you have thousands of passionate young men, with no education, & nothing else better to do, being taught to hate with religious ferver in a place where AK's are as common as t-shirts, getting paid to plant IED's...well, how can you not have trouble?

Yes

Hits a real chord for me after reading a few books about Africa (particularly 'Blood Diamonds' centering around Sierra Leone). In their case, it's lack of opportunity. Survival is the best most people there can hope for: from my western point of view, it's a living hell.

Quote:

What we should be doing is teaching these poor souls how to run water treatment plants, repair the electric grid and the roads. Instead we are too busy defending ourselves from people who literally have nothing to lose. Until we address that, things can't get any better, young men with a cause are the most dangerous thing we face there...

*So agreed*

Thanks again for your post

michelemichele · 06-22-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disfigured

I've seen this point of view before and it's "big picture" type theme.
http://www.politicalgroove.com/newre...reply&p=210742
What's the big deal?

If you remember articles going up on Maher's old board last year, there's a maelstorm brewing in Canada. IE
- Before they can cast their votes, Muslim women must bring photo ID & they're expected to show their faces: a little problematic for those wearing veils & burqas. Yet Canadians can still register for absentee ballots. Or we could (this might have changed since the last election to dodge the discriminatory bullet)
- Simple head scarves (hijabs) - which aren't nearly as strange to see as the head to toe/face shielding burqas - have been banned in some work places, schools, athletic teams. All for the 'safety' of the women and girls involved.

These are two small examples, but for all their seeming insignificance, I think they speak volumes. I don't like what I sense in the air, the reaction to the second point brought a lot of ignorant redneck assholes to the CBC's forum, all of whom had a particular vision of what 'their Canada' (& their fellow Canadians) should be: more like 'the rest of us'. Who's 'us'? Who's 'them'?

Now I've to cool off a bit and try to read the article without jumping to conclusions. For what it's worth, I'm not snapping at you, it's the topic itself that gets me going.

michelemichele · 06-22-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkavian

While that guy is correct about Muslim breeding, Western (Japan included) lack thereof would be far less problematic if they had better immigration/assimilation policies... Fitting even more population into Europe with already high population densities is pretty crazy... Much like elderly care, all those 'youths' require care as well, and this constitutes a large drain on country's resources. As far as growth rates are concerned, there's a simple question - where would you like to live:

1. Japan (low birth rate, balanced ratio of productive citizens to dependents -that 50 year old may not be able to push a plow, but he's still good as an office worker or research scientist)

2. Yemen (high birth rate, high number of dependents to productive citizens).

For most normal people, the answer is Fuck Yemen! And that includes quite a few Yemenis.

Interesting is how little emphasis is placed on economics

(among other things)

michelemichele · 06-22-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julia

Some of you know that I was living in France when France passed hate speech laws after Sept 11.

I am for hate speech laws.

These laws were passed because there was one or a few radical immams (clerics) who were saying "death to the West, death to France." These people were not French citizens so they were deported. France had several terrorist attacks in the 80s and 90s.

I believe there should be hate speech laws because some people do not have the discernment to not be swept up by radical, hateful talk.

I am too. Have you heard of Ernst Zundel?

CBC News Indepth: Ernst Zundel

I followed his deportation from the US & Canada with great glee. Why? Him & people like him do not understand that there's a responsibility that goes along with 'freedom of speech'.

lrrp · 06-22-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelemichele

Excellent, thanks very muchYes

Hits a real chord for me after reading a few books about Africa (particularly 'Blood Diamonds' centering around Sierra Leone). In their case, it's lack of opportunity. Survival is the best most people there can hope for: from my western point of view, it's a living hell.

*So agreed*

Thanks again for your post

I'm glad you liked it, he does have a unique viewpoint even among his fellow soldiers. He was stop-lossed, and extended past his manditory retirement. (I didn't know they could do that) He will finish with 32 years defending the US, and I just want him home. This war is wasteful and useless. KBR= Keep Bush Rich

TrueBlueAmerican · 06-22-2008, 08:32 PM

To see an example of how hate speech laws can backfire you need only to look at Nick Griffin and the British National Party.

michelemichele · 06-23-2008, 05:06 AM

Nick Griffin...

A pal of David Irving's -- nice.

Unfortunately, TBA, I'm still perusing Maclean's archives: dear Nick shall have to wait. There will be a deluge of details involved in his case and my ass is parked at this computer far too much as it is.

TrueBlueAmerican · 06-23-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michelemichele

Nick Griffin...

A pal of David Irving's -- nice.

Unfortunately, TBA, I'm still perusing Maclean's archives: dear Nick shall have to wait. There will be a deluge of details involved in his case and my ass is parked at this computer far too much as it is.

In short, British authorities tried to nail him for trying to incite racial violence in Britain, against Muslims, and he was subsequently put on a show trial. But the trial backfired and Nick Griffin got away unscaved and became somewhat of a folk hero for some segments of British society. Whatmore, this entire incident catapulted the BNP into doubling its seats in government.

michelemichele · 06-23-2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueBlueAmerican

In short, British authorities tried to nail him for trying to incite racial violence in Britain, against Muslims, and he was subsequently put on a show trial. But the trial backfired and Nick Griffin got away unscaved and became somewhat of a folk hero for some segments of British society. Whatmore, this entire incident catapulted the BNP into doubling its seats in government.

I'm not that bad, I did glance at Wikipedia, but I wondered if there was anything else playing out in the background, some sort of extenuating circumstance that got him off & culminated in this... mass psychosis? But thanks for writing your post, I just didn't want to scour all over the Net.

There's always going to be people who martyr these types: that he got elected is not a good sign.

You think he's a typical example, or an exception to the rule?

^...I guess it's obvious I think it's the latter, and I wouldn't scrap hate laws because of him.

You've made sure I have more homework to do

06-22-2008, 01:07 PM	#11 (permalink)
Malkavian Illegal Trash Container Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Resting in Peace Posts: 4,189 My Mood: Thanks: 184 Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts	While that guy is correct about Muslim breeding, Western (Japan included) lack thereof would be far less problematic if they had better immigration/assimilation policies... Fitting even more population into Europe with already high population densities is pretty crazy... Much like elderly care, all those 'youths' require care as well, and this constitutes a large drain on country's resources. As far as growth rates are concerned, there's a simple question - where would you like to live: 1. Japan (low birth rate, balanced ratio of productive citizens to dependents -that 50 year old may not be able to push a plow, but he's still good as an office worker or research scientist) 2. Yemen (high birth rate, high number of dependents to productive citizens). For most normal people, the answer is Fuck Yemen! And that includes quite a few Yemenis. __________________ Woof!
	Top

06-22-2008, 08:32 PM	#17 (permalink)
TrueBlueAmerican Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,140 Thanks: 26 Thanked 28 Times in 19 Posts	To see an example of how hate speech laws can backfire you need only to look at Nick Griffin and the British National Party.
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06-23-2008, 05:06 AM	#18 (permalink)
michelemichele Living Dead Girl Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 616 My Mood: Thanks: 72 Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts	Nick Griffin... A pal of David Irving's -- nice. Unfortunately, TBA, I'm still perusing Maclean's archives: dear Nick shall have to wait. There will be a deluge of details involved in his case and my ass is parked at this computer far too much as it is. __________________ ribbet
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