PoliticalGroove Forums

Welcome to the PoliticalGroove Forums

We offer discussion, social groups and blogs in an open and free environment. Our free community you will have access to post topics, post blogs, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!



Go Back   PoliticalGroove Forums > Issue Forums > General Political Discussion
Share PG Forum Register Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Mark Forums Read

Sponsors
View Poll Results: Liberals: Which aspect of this upsets you the most?
That the US military is achieving success in reaching a goal 0 0%
That the enemies of America are losing 0 0%
That Bush and McCain have been proven correct about the surge 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2008, 08:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mudwhistle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 949
Thanks: 178
Thanked 34 Times in 20 Posts
mudwhistle is a normal PG member
Al-Qaeda is losing the war of minds

The US “surge” in Iraq has been so manifestly successful that no serious person can deny that gains have been made. Even Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have (grudgingly) conceded progress. Yet both Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama are quick to add that progress has been purely on the military side and that those gains are ephemeral. This fits with their broader narrative – that the war has been a disaster on every front.

During a recent Democratic debate, for example, Mr Obama declared: “We are seeing al-Qaeda stronger now than at any time since 2001.” Mrs Clinton says President George W. Bush’s policies in Iraq have “emboldened our enemies”. We should leave Iraq, she says, so we can better focus on the threat of al-Qaeda.

In fact, in large measure because of what is unfolding in Iraq, the tide within the Islamic world is beginning to run strongly against al-Qaeda – and this, in turn, may be the single most important ideological development in recent years.

In November 2007 Sayyid Imam al-Sharif (“Dr Fadl”) published his book, Rationalizations on Jihad in Egypt and the World, in serialised form. Mr Sharif, who is Egyptian, argues that the use of violence to overthrow Islamic governments is religiously unlawful and practically harmful. He also recommends the formation of a special Islamic court to try Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda’s number two and its ideological leader, and calls the attacks on September 11 2001 a “catastrophe for all Muslims”.

Mr Sharif’s words are significant because he was once a mentor to Mr Zawahiri. Mr Sharif, who wrote the book in a Cairo prison, is “a living legend within the global jihadist movement”, according to Jarret Brachman, a terrorism expert.

Another important event occurred in October 2007, when Sheikh Abd Al-‘Aziz bin Abdallah Aal Al-Sheikh, the highest religious authority in Saudi Arabia, issued a fatwa prohibiting Saudi youth from engaging in jihad abroad. It states: “I urge my brothers the ulama [the top class of Muslim clergy] to clarify the truth to the public . . . to warn [youth] of the consequences of being drawn to arbitrary opinions and [religious] zeal that is not based on religious knowledge.” The target of the fatwa is obvious: Mr bin Laden.

A month earlier Sheikh Salman al-Awdah, an influential Saudi cleric whom Mr bin Laden once lionised, wrote an “open letter” condemning Mr bin Laden. “Brother Osama, how much blood has been spilt? How many innocents among children, elderly, the weak, and women have been killed and made homeless in the name of al-Qaeda?” Sheikh Awdah wrote. “The ruin of an entire people, as is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq ... cannot make Muslims happy.”

These criticisms by prominent voices within the jihadist movement should be seen in the context of an even more significant development: the “Anbar Awakening” now spreading throughout Iraq. Just 18 months ago Anbar province was the stronghold of al-Qaeda in Iraq; today it is known as the birthplace of an Iraqi and Islamic grass-roots uprising against al-Qaeda as an organisation and bin Ladenism as an ideology. It is an extraordinary transformation: Iraqis en masse siding with America, the “infidel” and a western “occupying power”, to defeat Islamic militants.

Not surprisingly, al-Qaeda’s stock is falling in much of the Arab and Islamic world. A recent survey found that in January less than a quarter of Pakistanis approved of Mr bin Laden, compared with 46 per cent last August, while backing for al-Qaeda fell from 33 per cent to 18 per cent.

According to a July 2007 report from the Pew Global Attitudes Project, “large and growing numbers of Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere [are] rejecting Islamic extremism”. The percentage of Muslims saying suicide bombing is justified in the defence of Islam has declined in seven of the eight Arab countries where trend data are available. In Lebanon, for example, 34 per cent of Muslims say such suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified; in 2002, 74 per cent expressed this view. We are also seeing large drops in support for Mr bin Laden. These have occurred since the Iraq war began.

Since General David Petraeus put in place his counter-insurgency strategy early last year, al-Qaeda has been dealt punishing military blows. Iraqis continue to turn against al-Qaeda and so does more of the Arab and Muslim world. In the past half-year an important new front, led by prominent Islamic clerics, has been opened. Militarily, ideologically and in terms of popular support, these are bad days for Mr bin Laden and his jihadist jackals.

If we continue to build on these developments, the Iraq war, once thought to be a colossal failure, could turn out be a positive and even a pivotal event in our struggle against militant Islam. Having paid a high cost in blood and treasure and having embraced the wrong strategy for far too long, we stayed in the fight, proving that America was not the “weak horse” Mr bin Laden believed it to be. Having stayed in the fight, we may prevail in it. The best way to subvert the appeal of bin Ladenism is to defeat those who take up the sword in its name.

We are a long way from winning in Iraq. It remains a traumatised nation and the progress made can be lost. But the trajectory of events is at last in our favour and a good outcome is within our grasp. If we succeed it will have enormously positive effects beyond Iraq.
mudwhistle is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 08:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
Sarcasm Is Blue
 
Rollerball's Avatar
 
Asteroids Champion!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,501
Thanks: 69
Thanked 122 Times in 72 Posts
Rollerball is a famous PG member
good ol' muddy.



What upsets me most is that there is no option D:

"That there isn't a factual statement in this poll for you to choose."
Rollerball is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 09:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
I Drank Your Milkshake
 
Curator's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 729
My Mood:
Thanks: 15
Thanked 178 Times in 106 Posts
Curator is a normal PG member
No source but I assume it is from another Rupert Murdock cesspool.
__________________
“I truly believe that at this point in America’s history we need a president who will not just continue ... basically the policies we have followed in recent years. We need a president with transformational qualities.”

"For that reason, I will be voting for Barack Obama.”

- Former Secretary of State Colin Powell

“You can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska.”
Gov Palin explaining her national security credentials.
Curator is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 11:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ibex's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,471
My Mood:
Thanks: 245
Thanked 267 Times in 180 Posts
ibex is a famous PG member
To answer the first three bullet point questions, 1) Bullshit! 2)Debatable and 3) You're outta your fucking gourd! It's the same desperate shit the Germans heard in the spring of 1945, "Der Fuehrer has a secret weapon." Go back to Oz Dorothy.
ibex is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 11:29 AM   #5 (permalink)
The party of the pissed!!
 
BillCosby's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,504
My Mood:
Thanks: 183
Thanked 119 Times in 92 Posts
BillCosby has disabled reputation
Have they been successful in conquering the problems they created???

I guess if they find some success they can take credit for it........


Success all depends on how it is defined....... A million + dead............ & millions leave the country........

No electricity.............

No running water.....................

Dozens of murders & killings each & everyday...........

Watching all your natural resources flow away to your conquers while you have no job, money & your life is a mess..........
__________________
Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror


http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/leagion/export.gif
BillCosby is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 11:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
Sassy Lipstick Maverick
 
julia's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,795
Blog Entries: 7
Thanks: 270
Thanked 272 Times in 164 Posts
julia is a famous PG member
Have never seen such a ridiculously slanted poll.
Getta clue.
__________________
The candidate does not speak for the campaign.
julia is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 11:37 AM   #7 (permalink)
Sassy Lipstick Maverick
 
julia's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,795
Blog Entries: 7
Thanks: 270
Thanked 272 Times in 164 Posts
julia is a famous PG member
At least the title is correct, many Iraqis will do anything to get rid of an occupier.
__________________
The candidate does not speak for the campaign.
julia is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 03:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
mudwhistle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 949
Thanks: 178
Thanked 34 Times in 20 Posts
mudwhistle is a normal PG member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibex View Post
To answer the first three bullet point questions, 1) Bullshit! 2)Debatable and 3) You're outta your fucking gourd! It's the same desperate shit the Germans heard in the spring of 1945, "Der Fuehrer has a secret weapon." Go back to Oz Dorothy.
What bullet point questions?
mudwhistle is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 03:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 690
My Mood:
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 1
Thanked 29 Times in 20 Posts
al Asaad is a famous PG member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudwhistle View Post
The US “surge” in Iraq has been so manifestly successful that no serious person can deny that gains have been made. Even Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have (grudgingly) conceded progress.
Yep, but when the troop levels drop to or below pre-surge levels, the violence will rise and this time, the bloodbaths will be personal: those who cooperated with the US will be assassinated; the bad guys are just waiting...
Quote:
Yet both Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama are quick to add that progress has been purely on the military side and that those gains are ephemeral.
What pisses you off is both are 100% correct-heh?
Quote:
(SNIP) Not surprisingly, al-Qaeda’s stock is falling in much of the Arab and Islamic world.
How could you, a most ardent proponent of al-Qaeda's enduring strength-in a moment, contemptuously utter anti al Qaeda rhetoric?
Quote:
Since General David Petraeus put in place his counter-insurgency strategy early last year, al-Qaeda has been dealt punishing military blows.
Hello?! HELLO! al-Qaeda is a movement, not an "army"-duh.
Quote:
Militarily, ideologically and in terms of popular support, these are bad days for Mr bin Laden
bin-Laden is dead and you and Junior ought to stop reincarnating his ghost; I for one am tired of that once useful to you but now tired, worn-out tactic.
Quote:
(SNIP)
If we continue to build on these developments, the Iraq war, once thought to be a colossal failure, could turn out be a positive and even a pivotal event in our struggle against militant Islam.
Make me understand: how will building a billion dollar embassy (costing an additional one billion dollars a month to maintain) in the green zone, plus our start on spending the next trillion dollars on what is and always will be a grotesque sand trap of monstrous proportions, go to "...codifying democracy in the Middle East"?
Quote:
Having paid a high cost in blood and treasure and having embraced the wrong strategy for far too long, we stayed in the fight, proving that America was not the “weak horse” Mr bin Laden believed it to be. Having stayed in the fight, we may
"May"? "MAY" prevail in it? You don't fuxing know when/if we will persevere?
Quote:
(Oh, I get it now, at leas the way you explain it: though your way is still an open ended war against our treasury, our young people, our nation’s safety: as you explain it: We are a long way from winning in Iraq. It remains a traumatised nation and the progress made can be lost. But the trajectory of events is at last in our favour and a good outcome is within our grasp. If we succeed it will have enormously positive effects beyond Iraq."
You and stupid son George really believe that utter, bilious swill; you do-don’t you?
__________________
Long live President Obama
al Asaad is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 04:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
ibex's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,471
My Mood:
Thanks: 245
Thanked 267 Times in 180 Posts
ibex is a famous PG member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudwhistle View Post
What bullet point questions?
The poll at the top of this thread. Clean that mud outta your whistle Junior!
ibex is offline   Top Reply With Quote
Reply

Sponsors

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC8
PoliticalGroove.com is in no way affiliated with Viacom - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart or HBO - Real Time with Bill Maher