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Old 05-04-2008, 02:17 PM   #41 (permalink)
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QUOTE=al Asaad;173981
In 8-10 years, famine will begin to decimate "Third World" populations while in parts of the Earth, wars will be fought over dwindling potable water supplies.
In India, the Ganges River and it's continuous flow of water make life possible for approximately 700,000,000 people.

The Ganges River is horribly polluted with everything imaginable including dead people, rotting animal carcasses, and raw sewage. In spite of this pollution, the water is used for bathing, drinking, cooking and irrigation.

The Ganges River flows all year because it's source is melting snow-pack from the Himalaya's. A climate report issued last year indicates the glaciers that feed the Ganges may disappear by 2030--this is only 22 years from now. Once the glaciers have melted, the only water that will be in the Ganges will be from rainfall.

If immediate steps are not taken to reduce or eliminate the river's current pollution levels, as the flow of water subsides, and the pollution content becomes untenable, the river will become useless long before 2030.
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:38 PM   #42 (permalink)
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QUOTE=jdanton;174048 Some of this reflects Barney Frank's observation that we have created a world where people were encourages, financially, to buy homes some distance from work and commute.

We all know this scenario and it will continue for a long time. You can buy a house in San Francisco for $2 million or one miles away for $750K meaning one person out of a thousand can afford to live in the city.

And how does anyone know where they will be working in a few years? It's not practical to relocate a household, including kids, each time the head of the household changes jobs.

And in most areas there are simply too many people, and the city that has been designed or evolved for these people, by default is spread out over many miles.

It is impossible...absolutely impossible, to put all the houses, all the businesses, all the parks, etc. in one place. When a city has 500,000+ people, it's going to be spread out for miles.


So if we know all of this today, if we know our cities are locked into these designs, and we know most people will be dependent on their personal autos for decades to come, then to greatly reduce oil consumption, there are two major options; Number one, create environmentally friendly public transportation that will serve the needs of most people. And number two, require combustion engine cars to get 50mpg and over time hybrids, hydrogen, or electrics represent a majority of our personal automobiles.

Maybe after another 100 years or so there will be a new technology that renders oil a moot point...
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Old 05-04-2008, 02:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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QUOTE=BillCosby;174101 So then you see a higher price as strictly negative.......... I don't. Although there are many negatives obviously there are many +'s as well I didn't notice you mentioning.........

We have been in denial for 20 some years about this..... @ some point it is going to have to change & or make soem serious adjustments.....

I don't believe I indicated a higher gas price is negative?? I said they can be 'wide spread and harmful'.

If people had as much money as you, higher prices would not be negative to them--right? But for those who don't have your resources, and live pay check to pay check, the effects will be harmful, and depending on how these people deal with these effects, they can also become quite negative.

If you read my posts you will know that I always advocate oil independence, changing our lives to deal with this potential crisis, including relocation if necessary, driving less, whatever. However, being forced into something can rarely be termed 'positive'.

Many people have already been forced to make changes in their lives to deal with higher fuel prices so in effect their 'point in time' has already arrived. $4/gallon will work for most people, $5/gallon will lose 10% of the people, $6/gallon will lose another 40%, and by this time the transportation costs for everything will be so high that inflation will rule the USA...
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Old 05-04-2008, 03:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
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We have both seen high gas prices as well as scarce gas & no gas....... High inflation & some tuff times......... We survived as did most Americans & Canadians.........

Perhaps negative is not the correct word.......

IMO there needs to be some belt tightening & adjusts made especially as it relates to our dependence on cheap & easy petro, & petro chemicals...

I know you are aware that America was not always as you described here....... As I stated previously going local is good.. The days of cheap abundance is taking a turn but that is good for local....
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:31 AM   #45 (permalink)
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QUOTE=BillCosby;174223 We have both seen high gas prices as well as scarce gas & no gas....... High inflation & some tuff times......... We survived as did most Americans & Canadians.........
Yes we have...but I'm thinking people back then were not living pay check to pay check, were not up to their gonads in credit debt, were living a more manageable life, than people today. The USA was not $9 trillion in debt! Back then we didn't have the dumbest president in the history of the USA and the most worthless Congress! It was a different economy which was a lot more rational than the one we function in today.

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IMO there needs to be some belt tightening & adjusts made especially as it relates to our dependence on cheap & easy petro, & petro chemicals...
I agree 100% but I don't want to see it done at the expense of people's lifestyles or hurting business. I think we first need to give people some technological options, then give them some time to become involved, and reap the benefits without harming anyone...
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:10 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I'll say it, since no one else has: we must build nukes...

The best thing about nukes is we can bury the wastes miles down.
Chernobyl you say?

We've ALWAYS been better than the Russians at plant management and safeguarding nuclear wastes.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:22 PM   #47 (permalink)
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There is still a huge scare in this country about them...... Perhaps we should build them in Canada so no Americans need fear.....

Some type of solar would be preferable but that is not happening any time soon........

The elec car is really a joke as it is really running on coal.........

I would think that sending nuke waste off into the sun would be an alternative to burying it/the problem....... Not sue what if any work is being done on something like this...........
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