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Old 05-01-2008, 05:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Gas prices

While we all complain as they go up, and all the candidates have some ideas, I find this a good area in which to ask what people here expect the government to be able to do about gas prices.

The government, I don't think, can tell the oil companies what to charge for their product, what to pay their execs, or what kind of retirement packages they can give.

The government can stop the subsidies, but that will more likely drive prices further up.

Just as people complain about the cost of pay per view boxing, yet keep paying to watch, and people complain about the cost of food and drinks at ball games, but keep going and paying, gas prices will go up as long as the people keep paying and driving.

From my perspective, our government isn't able to much about gas prices.

What ti CAN do is investigate for any illegal practices within the industry, and that may or may not yielf lower prices down the road a while.

Past that, I'm not sure we can reasonably expect our government to do much about this.
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Windfall tax??

It seems to me they still have the ability to tax............

Unless that was outlawed along w/ some of our freedumbs.......

They lack the will to do anything in both parties..........
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BillCosby View Post
Windfall tax??

It seems to me they still have the ability to tax............

Unless that was outlawed along w/ some of our freedumbs.......

They lack the will to do anything in both parties..........

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that YOU believe that a free and open and unregulated market is the best economic system? Or do you believe only in socialism in which your government regulates all business?

If you prefer the open market system, in which all companies succeed or fail based on supply and demand, then surely you can understand that it makes little sense to charge a windfall profits tax.

Oil companies do not have a monopoly--right? You are free to purchase their products at any number of players in that industry. You are equally free to purchase nothing from them--right?

You can't have it both ways; an open market which is unregulated and a windfall tax when a company does exceedingly well. And I have asked you and others on this topic in the past; how do you define 'windfall'?? Is this a specific quantity of money--like $10 billion or $10 million or $10 thousand? Is this a specific percentage--like anything over 15% net profit? And surely whatever numbers you select must also apply to all businesses--right?

Fundamentally this is about supply and demand and today demand is higher than supply for oil so people are paying a premium. If you don't wish to live in socialism, and if you wish for the oil companies to have lower profits, then reduce your demand of that product that is in limited supply. If enough people agree with your position, then as demand slows the prices will lower. If they continue their demand, full knowing they are already paying a premium, then the prices will continue to rise to whatever level the consumer can accept.

Windfall taxes in my opinion would be a form of regulation. The only way I can ever accept this type of tax is in a monopoly situation where the consumer has no choice...
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by OldManOnFire View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that YOU believe that a free and open and unregulated market is the best economic system? Or do you believe only in socialism in which your government regulates all business?

((AAaahh some tuff choices there... WHy do I have to pick between karl marX or john d rockefellA'....???))

If you prefer the open market system, in which all companies succeed or fail based on supply and demand, then surely you can understand that it makes little sense to charge a windfall profits tax. ((& do I need to click my heels together three times in order to believe this is actually happening in any industrialized country....??? SOrry I digress....... IMO the system has some issues. SOrry if you believe it is running just fine.......... The oil like the food & about everything else is hardly running free........... Except overseas were they can squash small countries home market players like bugs.....Hell just look @ the big bale out...... The small guy loses his house but wall st. got the check........))

Oil companies do not have a monopoly--right? You are free to purchase their products at any number of players in that industry. You are equally free to purchase nothing from them--right? (((Sure I can walk.....lol Grow my own food, brew my own beer & stick my head in the sand...)))

You can't have it both ways; an open market which is unregulated and a windfall tax when a company does exceedingly well.((Where are you living @??? This is not unfettered capitalism & I think you know that.......)) And I have asked you and others on this topic in the past; how do you define 'windfall'?? ((I don't define it I will leave that to congress....... )))
Fundamentally this is about supply and demand and today demand is higher than supply for oil so people are paying a premium. If you don't wish to live in socialism, and if you wish for the oil companies to have lower profits, then reduce your demand of that product that is in limited supply ((I am not for higher taxes I am for fairer prices. You are more than welcome to pay anything you like above that...You are so into this argument every time. WHy not apply it to water then. Why regulate your drinking water?? How bout your power. TRIPLE IT TODAY OR MOVE TO SANTA ROSA YOU SOCIALIST... LOL)). If enough people agree with your position, then as demand slows the prices will lower. If they continue their demand, full knowing they are already paying a premium, then the prices will continue to rise to whatever level the consumer can accept. (supply & demand=unfettered capitalism except electricity, water. Why not do the same for the police & fire while we are @ it..... How much you willing to pay to cross a bridge??? This is pretty boring stuff no wonder no one wants to argue w/ you about it........ THis was all worked out 50-100 years ago)

Windfall taxes in my opinion would be a form of regulation. The only way I can ever accept this type of tax is in a monopoly situation where the consumer has no choice...
Your welcome to your opinion.......

I am not opposed to regulation..

Unlike you & rockafellA'......... I would imagine the tobacco & alcohol ppl would agree as well.......
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Old 05-02-2008, 01:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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QUOTE=jdanton;172672 While we all complain as they go up, and all the candidates have some ideas, I find this a good area in which to ask what people here expect the government to be able to do about gas prices.

Past that, I'm not sure we can reasonably expect our government to do much about this.

I started thinking about this and actually...there are lots of things that can be done. How about...

Government vehicles:

In every situation where an electric vehicle will work as well as a combustion engine vehicle, start using electric vehicles. This includes the USPS.

All government vehicles that do not fall into the electric category above, should be sub-compacts, or hybrids, that have a minimum 35mpg rating. If USA manufacturers cannot provide these vehicles, then buy imports.

Remove all vehicles from service that are not considered essential. This includes all vehicles which are made available for personal use.

All use of government owned and operated aircraft, as well as government employees using commercial airlines, to be reduced to an absolute minimum.

Government facilities:

My guess is there are tens of thousands of government offices/facilities around the world. Immediately eliminate 25% of these facilities and another 25% over the next ten years.

US Military:

Immediately eliminate 15% of all military facilities around the world and another 15% over the next ten years.

The US military is the single largest consumer of oil products in the USA and the world, consuming approximately 150 million barrels per year, or 6.3 billion gallons per year! No matter the method, reduce this consumption by 15% in the next two years and another 15% in the next five years.

Begin removing 10,000 US troops per month from Iraq and immediately suspend all ground and air attacks.

Free enterprise encouragement:

The US government needs to have a contest like the "X Prize". It will award $1 billion to anyone who designs a passenger car which is equal in specifications to the Toyota Prius but has a maximum retail price of $15,000.

A second X-prize of another $1 billion will go to any person or business who can design a USA manufacturing facility which will guarantee the manufacture of this $15,000 car.

A third X-prize of another $1 billion will be awarded to create higher-efficiency electric car batteries that can be warranted for ten years and cost no more than $1000 per vehicle.

A fourth X-prize of $100 million 'each' will be awarded to all incorporated cities in the USA, with a minimum population of 300,000, who can document, design and implement a 25% reduction in passenger car traffic within a two year period.

Summary:

All of these ideas and in not a single one do I need to regulate an industry, charge windfall profits, or ask people to sacrifice or invest. In fact, once the reductions are made in the government and military, personal taxes can be reduced.

Regarding the government and the military ideas, this is common sense and nothing more than house-cleaning and increasing efficiencies. This is about 20 years past due!

Regarding the X-Prizes...we can have a $15,000 car, USA manufacturing plants, affordable electric cars, and remove 25% of all passenger car traffic from the nations 50 most populated cities, in a competitive spirit, for the measly sum of $8 billion...or about the cost of the US being in Iraq for a single month.

If these items can be achieved, at least in the USA, demand will be less than the supply of oil, and gasoline prices will fall like Paris Hilton's panties after one shot of tequila...
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Could it be that fuels (fossil and alternative) have now become such an integral part of our lives that they've moved from free-market into a social need and thus should be either regulated or literally controlled by the government?
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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FINANCE - Exxon Mobil 1Q profit up 17 pct, Wall Street expected more - Top News - Comcast.net

Oil companies post record profits.......AGAIN.

10.9 BILLION dollars in profit, in 1 quarter. Exxon just LOVES the war on terra.

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Old 05-02-2008, 02:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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FINANCE - Exxon Mobil 1Q profit up 17 pct, Wall Street expected more - Top News - Comcast.net

Oil companies post record profits.......AGAIN.

10.9 BILLION dollars in profit, in 1 quarter. Exxon just LOVES the war on terra.
Tough beating Wal-Mart.
$93 Average price of a barrel of oil sold by Exxon in the first quarter.
$55 Average price this time last year.
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Tough beating Wal-Mart.
$93 Average price of a barrel of oil sold by Exxon in the first quarter.
$55 Average price this time last year.
But of course, oil prices and Bush and Cheneys policies are completely unrelated.

OilCompanies.net - News and Articles

"Let us rid ourselves of the fiction that low oil prices are somehow good for the United States."

–Dick Cheney, October 1986.

...
REPUBLICAN PARTY: Oil and Gas Industry Contributed Nearly $67 Million to Republicans Since 2000. The oil and gas industry has contributed over $66.7 million to the RNC, NRCC, NRSC, and Republican candidates since the 2000 election cycle. The oil and gas industry contributed more than $20 million to Republicans in the 2004 cycle alone-four times more than oil money donated to Democrats. In 2004, Exxon alone gave 831,941 to Republicans. [Center for Responsive Politics]
...


seems to have been a pretty good investment for them.
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