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Old 05-07-2008, 10:03 AM   #31 (permalink)
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lol............

Is the concept of nation, country, race etc past it's prime??? Not that it will go away but it's usefulness to the vast majority of the billions seems pointless.....

That is it seems more a tool of the "leaders" & a divider of the ppl rather than a uniting factor or promoter of of cooperation.....

Certainly though we in the usa & the west do enjoy many advantages w/ the status quo....

Obviously, once you have two or more of something, in this case autonomous countries, there's an automatic division in culture, language, economy, war mongering, etc. I think there's something like 250 nations in this world and most are unique in many ways. So the division which is created by having 250 nations generally will not create the best possible situation for the billions of citizens.

It's really amazing when you think about it but billions of people, including those in the USA, either live in a dictatorship or something close enough to this that the people feel their lives are managed by a few in government. How .000001% of the people in the world find a way to control the other 6 billion is an interesting thought?? Of course, this handful of presidents and dictators and military rulers, probably are the least sane of the 6 billion people, and 90% of our world issues are rooted within these devious minds...these narcissistic people...these power-mongers...these greedy and arrogant people.

We have the same issues on a different scale within the 50 states of the USA. It's each state for their own with little to no alignment with other states. What would happen if all US states were given complete sovereignty--probably power-struggles and chaos?

I'm all for having the 250 unique nations in the world, but I would prefer that on some level, they all were required to abide by world laws...
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:01 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Obviously, once you have two or more of something, in this case autonomous countries, there's an automatic division in culture, language, economy, war mongering, etc. I think there's something like 250 nations in this world and most are unique in many ways. So the division which is created by having 250 nations generally will not create the best possible situation for the billions of citizens.

It's really amazing when you think about it but billions of people, including those in the USA, either live in a dictatorship or something close enough to this that the people feel their lives are managed by a few in government. How .000001% of the people in the world find a way to control the other 6 billion is an interesting thought?? Of course, this handful of presidents and dictators and military rulers, probably are the least sane of the 6 billion people, and 90% of our world issues are rooted within these devious minds...these narcissistic people...these power-mongers...these greedy and arrogant people.

We have the same issues on a different scale within the 50 states of the USA. It's each state for their own with little to no alignment with other states. What would happen if all US states were given complete sovereignty--probably power-struggles and chaos?

I'm all for having the 250 unique nations in the world, but I would prefer that on some level, they all were required to abide by world laws...




lol................ AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

Some type of unity to where attacking another is no more likely than new jersey attacking florida.......

I guess it is only a dream..... IMAGINE
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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[/color]


lol................ AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

Some type of unity to where attacking another is no more likely than new jersey attacking florida.......

I guess it is only a dream..... IMAGINE

The 300+ million people in the USA have allowed the worst president and vice-president and secretary of state in the history of the USA to drag all of our honor, our integrity, and our world standing to all-time lows.

We have done nothing to counter-act this arrogant path for over seven years. How can this be possible??

How bad must things get before the people have enough interest or grande cajones to impeach the bastards?

So in the macro-view of the world, a handful of people, our chimp and the other narcissistic clowns, along with their insanities and greed, seem to rule the world and it's 6+ billion sheep...simply amazing isn't it...
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:28 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Well hopefully it is coming to an end............

The more I learn of what actually happened for these last seven years the angrier I get........
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:10 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Well hopefully it is coming to an end............

The more I learn of what actually happened for these last seven years the angrier I get........
Assuming Obama is the Dem candidate...the odds will not be in his favor to win...it's questionable if the USA is capable of voting for a candidate no matter the color of their skin??

So there are decent to good odds that if McCain does not die from old age between now and November, the Reps may maintain control of the White House.

If a Dem makes it into the WH, one thing they can do is immediately stop with the torture BS. They can start withdrawing from Iraq but the moment something turns upside down, they will probably send more troops back in. Nothing can be done in the next five years to solve high gasoline prices. Not sure anything can be done about the economy? Probably don't have enough money to provide health care to all or remedy the SS disaster? Can raise taxes on the wealthier but this is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things. Global warming may come to some realization very soon. Some are talking about Lake Mead being dry in 13 years.

Except for a few issues, I'm thinking it does not make much difference who resides in the WH. This lousy Congress has not helped the situation either...
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Old 05-08-2008, 11:49 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Well the way things are........ Both parties part of the industrial military complex I don't have my hopes set to high.....

I don't believe mcbush will win.......... His embrace of bush2 should be enough to end it for him right there..........
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:42 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Well the way things are........ Both parties part of the industrial military complex I don't have my hopes set to high.....

I don't believe mcbush will win.......... His embrace of bush2 should be enough to end it for him right there..........
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Sen. Barack Obama today said the most important thing he could achieve as president would be to deal with Iraq and the threat of al Qaeda in Afghanistan while improving "our influence around the world."
We don't know how he will actually deal with Iraq, but my guess is it will be 2-3 years minimum before the US is out of there.

Meanwhile, his quote above, at least to me, sounds exactly like something insane-Bush would say?? Bush has ignored all domestic issues in lieu of his insane march through the Middle East.

What's with Afghanistan? Are all the al Qaeda located only in Afghanistan? Obama has said he wishes to put more troops into Afghanistan so it sounds like a 'pea' game to me. Take them out of Iraq and move them next door?

As long as the USA feels that it must mettle in every one's business, being the world police, the righteous nation, protector of Israel, etc. there will be US troops in the Middle East. McCain is more right than anyone when he says US troops will be in Iraq or wherever for 100 years.

If I was running for president, I would say my priority will be the USA, it's citizens first, and that I will only deal with international issues when there is a viable coalition in place and sanctioned by the UN. If we don't take care of things at home, to deal with oil prices, global climates, water and electricity issues, population growth, the education system, health care, and the economy, in my very humble opinion, al Qaeda will be a moot point...
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:02 PM   #38 (permalink)
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A guess? Detailed? Bleh. Say you divide the corps you have on hand & assign each one to those places where the largest number of civilians were gathering. Then you wait, because if such a command/permission been given, with it would have been at least some the troops the UN had originally promised Dallaire. Odds are, with that kind of support behind you, you won't wait long: when the French went in (after the genocide, & to protect the Hutus), they mobilized fast.

The point of killing the Flemish soldiers had been scaring off the UN... Had they underestimated UN's commitment to its ideological principles, seeing more troops come in would've given them pause. (< understatement)

You must understand, there's an element of momentum critical to this type of situation, and they were not up to fighting both the UN & Kagami's troops.
Hindsight is always 20/20... There may have been a momentum there, but UN did not understand... And that's the main point. They didn't know local politics enough to make informed decisions, and the odds of outsiders having expert opinion and making correct decisions on the fly has been rather low historically. How do you get the info about combat readiness of the militia units? (Aside from reading books and reports that were written after the events ) If you are a militia, are you willing to share that information willingly? If not, should UN rely on spy networks that would gather needed info on timely basis? To cover conflicts around the world, how big will this network have to be? Do you want UN going through your garbage? (only if they take it out )

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RE Nationalized industries et al - It probably depends on the region (& industry). Remember how many of those dictators funneled $ for themselves, and still do, so it's not working out so well. OTOH, foreign owned corporations would probably also suck. Who sucks less? Don't know yet, it's an enormous subject & I've some way to go before I might know what I'm talking about.
Well, local dictators are local problem. That's what revolutions are for... it's their problem to solve, not ours. Western firepower can tilt the battlefield unfairly however, hence my distaste for weapons sales.
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The black market supplies some weapons, others are from shadow nations who supply them 'secretly' (sometimes, it isn't that big a secret). As far as I know, if the US has culpability now, it's far less active than a couple of others, not necessarily for the right reasons.....

...Before the European scramble is just... no comparison. Sure it did relatively well, colonial expansion was limited to the technology of the time. Africa's topography & climate made much of it a most inhospitable place to visit, much less explore & conquer...

(later) OK, maybe I see why you're not getting me at all. Before I started reading about these countries, I didn't understand how and why these strong-men kept getting control of those countries over & over again, and I didn't get how Europe's artificial borders aggravated tribal conflicts & warlords. Do you feel as if I'm coming from a school of thought that perpetuates dilhemmas like these by fostering helplessness (or something like that)? -- Because I can't make sense of this part otherwise, they don't call this planet a global village for nothing. You mean: we've already tried it all & nothing's worked so far?
Lol... i guess you could say that. How should i put it? In my experience, there are two types of "foreign aid"... One is done by people who really mean well, but have no clue what's going on and thus their impact is marginally beneficial at best, and often has negative unintended consequences. And another is done by people who actually took time to study and put together a business plan, but they do it to benefit themselves first and foremost, wreaking havoc purposefully in the process. People who mean well AND can put together a half decent plan are exceedingly rare in the business.

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I must be very tired or something
Iraq: yup. Don't know much about Chechnya or Tibet at all (mortifying). Are you giving me these examples of situations where you think UN peace-keepers - and I use the term deliberately, as that is their primary function - would have driven the stakes up into more serious events?
Yes. A simple scenario - you are a UN peace keeper guarding a village. A US warplane shows up and heads to bomb it. Do you open fire?

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You'd think more people would go wtf, but that didn't happen, and given the correct conditions, more people than not will go along with what they perceive as the majority. Hutu civilians who went along with it did it to save themselves, possibly a spouse or a child. Most of them have said that the first was the hardest, then it got easy, and the memory of that first kill bothered them less as they killed more.

If you're thinking large #s of Hutu complicity = very large force against the UN, nope.
Yeah, this is an example of logic that bothers me. Somehow, i don't find it very reassuring.
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Mal? You've already said this RE Tutsi feeling towards the UN, and as I've said before: no, that isn't it. Kagame's ambivalence over the UN doesn't make a case against intervention, that's spin.

+Again, with Rwanda, armed confrontation was an issue when massacres began upon Pres Habyarimana's assassination half a year after Dallaire's arrival. UN troops could & would have stopped the genocide, and people who were there are convinced a small show of strength would have been enough.
I wish i had your optimism... Centuries of tribal and social feuding reversed by a few brave soldiers...
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:37 PM   #39 (permalink)
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We don't know how he will actually deal with Iraq, but my guess is it will be 2-3 years minimum before the US is out of there.

Meanwhile, his quote above, at least to me, sounds exactly like something insane-Bush would say?? Bush has ignored all domestic issues in lieu of his insane march through the Middle East.

I don't like that either & I am not going to defend it...... That country is still a basket case & the only thing coming out of it is opium....... Record amounts......

What's with Afghanistan? Are all the al Qaeda located only in Afghanistan? Obama has said he wishes to put more troops into Afghanistan so it sounds like a 'pea' game to me. Take them out of Iraq and move them next door?

((I don't think as many put I agree it is not a good idea either... THey just stay in wackistan till the leave......... SPend time w/ the relatives down there till it blows over.... Meanwhile the place is still a wreak))


As long as the USA feels that it must mettle in every one's business, being the world police, the righteous nation, protector of Israel, etc. there will be US troops in the Middle East. McCain is more right than anyone when he says US troops will be in Iraq or wherever for 100 years. (( well this is where the problem starts..... I agree we aint leaving (neither party) but w/ the pull out from the Suadi kingdom they want another base for the oil watch........ The premise is always our need to project force world wide rather then question the need to do so))

If I was running for president, I would say my priority will be the USA, it's citizens first, and that I will only deal with international issues when there is a viable coalition in place and sanctioned by the UN ((. that would get my vote right there.......... Can I write you in...lol)) If we don't take care of things at home, to deal with oil prices, global climates, water and electricity issues, population growth, the education system, health care, and the economy, in my very humble opinion, al Qaeda will be a moot point...
AMEN................

All the money wasted warring really, really makes me sick.......... That ppl are killing & dying for what in my opinion is nothing & lies makes me so angry sometimes I have to break away & do other things........

& what is worse..??? Them doing it all again in Iran...........

To be honest I never thought going into Afghanistan was a good idea simply because it is Afghanistan.... No body is going to conquer them......

Attacking the country because of one man is nuts. Was when they did it in Panama or anywhere else....
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:16 PM   #40 (permalink)
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AMEN................

All the money wasted warring really, really makes me sick.......... That ppl are killing & dying for what in my opinion is nothing & lies makes me so angry sometimes I have to break away & do other things........

& what is worse..??? Them doing it all again in Iran...........

To be honest I never thought going into Afghanistan was a good idea simply because it is Afghanistan.... No body is going to conquer them......

Attacking the country because of one man is nuts. Was when they did it in Panama or anywhere else....
From my perspective, war is a sign of complete failure. It's the last resort after everything imaginable has been done. What's more sickening to me is that most of us just go about our business while literally millions of people are dying or are severely impacted by the Iraq and Afghanistan debacle. It is unfathomable to me that anyone will go along with any aggression towards Iran--knowing what we now know about Iraq, and the Middle East, etc. to even think about attacking Iran is pure insanity. Not surprising even with this the odds are probably 50/50 that insane-Bush will try something...
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