has anybody ever referred to torture as punishment? I don’t think so.-Antonin Sacalia

BillCosby · 05-05-2008, 10:19 AM

babylonDon-

__________________
“To the contrary, has anybody ever referred to torture as punishment? I don’t think so.”-Antonin Sacalia

It is a very interesting comment Babylon has there..... I remember seeing the interview & the obviously annoyed sacalia..........

If you define not telling me what I want to hear as "wrong behavior" how does this not apply........???? There is no stretch, twist or falling back to some old English or old French meaning or understanding..... The forefathers spoke the same language we do & I think it is quite clear what the hell they meant unless your a sacalia or a john yoo..........

Quote:

Punishment is the practice of imposing something unpleasant or aversive on a person or animal in response to an unwanted, disobedient or morally wrong behavior.

Quote:

pun·ish·ment (pnsh-mnt)
n.
1.
a. The act or an instance of punishing.
b. The condition of being punished.
2. A penalty imposed for wrongdoing: "The severity of the punishment must . . . be in keeping with the kind of obligation which has been violated" Simone Weil.
3. Rough handling; mistreatment: These old skis have taken a lot of punishment over the years.

babylonDon · 05-05-2008, 12:33 PM

The fact that we can listen to someone say that, and not be overcome with outrage, is a sad indictment of our political landscape.

We've become numbed to the most brutal and savage sentiment, by it's sheer repetitiveness.

How the interviewer didn't respond with indignation is a problem too.

The correct response was, "Of course. How anyone NOT consider torture punishment?"

BillCosby · 05-05-2008, 12:53 PM

It appeared that the interviewer was as stunned by the response as he was annoyed answering it........

His wiggling & fidgeting as well as his facial expressions revealed his utter disgust & contempt for the question as well as his agitation w/ having to respond to it......

I have lost all respect for him as a justice & as a human being...........

Kanadesaga · 05-05-2008, 12:56 PM

Scalia that scumfuck was defending an indefensible position by parsing the word. Punishment refers to an exercise after a conviction. Since these "interrogations" occured before conviction it can not be classified as punishment. what he fails to recognize, or acknowledge, is that coerced confessions are useless. Unless you plan on changing that law as well.

ibex · 05-05-2008, 01:16 PM

Scalia's quote about torture along with his patently false statement that the Bush v. Gore decision of 2000 wasn't political are a perfect illustration of the arrogance of power. Unfortunately, if a lie is repeated often enough, people tend to accept it as truth, with the end result in the case of the Judicial system and the US Supreme Court in particular, a backsliding to the pre Miranda era. I find his glib remarks about Bush v. Gore especially galling because they expose the myth that conservatives don't believe in "activist" judges. Lesley Stahl hit him with nothing but softball questions on that issue, when she should have told him directly that the Court simply could have refused to hear Bush's case and let the decision of the FL court stand. The problem with trashy outlets like 60 Minutes and CNN is that their journalists are part of the same social class as the Washington establishment. It's difficult to be objective when the subject of an interview is also a member of your country club, who might even send his children or grandchildren to the same exclusive school that your kids go to. And the 60 Minutes puff piece that attempted to humanize this monster just made him look like an arrogant prick.

BillCosby · 05-05-2008, 01:24 PM

Well they were not totally worthless.. cheny got that yellow cake line from one of the tortured guys..........

Sure it later turned out to be shit the guy made up to get some sleep but hey it worked for them both......... They got one more excuse to kill a million IraQi & he got a good night sleep..........

I am sure that all those politicians/liars & "experts" that pushed this crap in the media will fess up soon & come out & just say they were wrong.........

It is just around the corner like victory...........

They been saying that every six months for 6 years now..... Sooner or later they gotta be right..... RIght.......???

Ptech · 05-05-2008, 06:53 PM

I saw the interview too.

Parsing words is what lawyers do for a living. I understood the point he was trying to make, and I think Kanade pointed it out--punishment is something administered for commission of a crime, in the strict legal meaning. And he was suggesting that since those at Gitmo had not been convicted of a crime, punishment could not possibly have occurred.

Which is pure sophistry.

This country is in trouble with men like him on the court. 5 out of 9 are Catholic now. I think that is bad news indeed.

BillCosby · 05-05-2008, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ptech

I saw the interview too.

Parsing words is what lawyers do for a living. I understood the point he was trying to make, and I think Kanade pointed it out--punishment is something administered for commission of a crime, in the strict legal meaning. And he was suggesting that since those at Gitmo had not been convicted of a crime, punishment could not possibly have occurred.

Which is pure sophistry.

This country is in trouble with men like him on the court. 5 out of 9 are Catholic now. I think that is bad news indeed.

~scratch head smiley here~ This concept or ideal is not unique in the USA but borrowed from England......... Where I don't think they view it's interpretation so narrowly......

There is an assumption here that punishment can only follow conviction......... When in fact punishment often times needs no qualification.......

For over 200 years in this country & I don't know how many in England the common understanding as well as the legal one has been a foundational prohibition against the use torture & related coercion......

Suddenly this is no more cause he said so.......

Kanadesaga · 05-06-2008, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

~scratch head smiley here~ This concept or ideal is not unique in the USA but borrowed from England......... Where I don't think they view it's interpretation so narrowly......

There is an assumption here that punishment can only follow conviction......... When in fact punishment often times needs no qualification.......

For over 200 years in this country & I don't know how many in England the common understanding as well as the legal one has been a foundational prohibition against the use torture & related coercion......

Suddenly this is no more cause he said so.......

Due process goes back to the Magna Carta and before. Uh that's 1215 AD. and this greasepile thinks he can subvert 800+ years of English tradition? Guess what? He has! and we've let him and them destroy this nation for their corporate fascism.

BillCosby · 05-06-2008, 09:47 AM

I actually use to like him........... I have an attorney that has done some work for me........ (does good work to) He is a second cousin of the SOB. Same last name although he pronounces it differently....

05-05-2008, 12:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
babylonDon Canalien Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sing-Sing (whatcha' gotta jiboo) Posts: 4,148 My Mood: Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 72 Thanked 103 Times in 69 Posts	The fact that we can listen to someone say that, and not be overcome with outrage, is a sad indictment of our political landscape. We've become numbed to the most brutal and savage sentiment, by it's sheer repetitiveness. How the interviewer didn't respond with indignation is a problem too. The correct response was, "Of course. How anyone NOT consider torture punishment?" __________________ "America, the greatest, best country that God has ever given man, on the face of the Earth"- Sean Hannity, professional broadcast journalist. “To the contrary, has anybody ever referred to torture as punishment? I don’t think so.”-Antonin Scalia
	Top

05-05-2008, 12:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,504 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 119 Times in 92 Posts	It appeared that the interviewer was as stunned by the response as he was annoyed answering it........ His wiggling & fidgeting as well as his facial expressions revealed his utter disgust & contempt for the question as well as his agitation w/ having to respond to it...... I have lost all respect for him as a justice & as a human being........... __________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

05-05-2008, 12:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kanadesaga Windbag Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYS - Devil's country Posts: 6,019 My Mood: Blog Entries: 4 Thanks: 181 Thanked 66 Times in 42 Posts	Scalia that scumfuck was defending an indefensible position by parsing the word. Punishment refers to an exercise after a conviction. Since these "interrogations" occured before conviction it can not be classified as punishment. what he fails to recognize, or acknowledge, is that coerced confessions are useless. Unless you plan on changing that law as well. __________________ Free all Political prisoners. Now.
	Top

05-05-2008, 01:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
ibex Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,322 My Mood: Thanks: 77 Thanked 100 Times in 62 Posts	Scalia's quote about torture along with his patently false statement that the Bush v. Gore decision of 2000 wasn't political are a perfect illustration of the arrogance of power. Unfortunately, if a lie is repeated often enough, people tend to accept it as truth, with the end result in the case of the Judicial system and the US Supreme Court in particular, a backsliding to the pre Miranda era. I find his glib remarks about Bush v. Gore especially galling because they expose the myth that conservatives don't believe in "activist" judges. Lesley Stahl hit him with nothing but softball questions on that issue, when she should have told him directly that the Court simply could have refused to hear Bush's case and let the decision of the FL court stand. The problem with trashy outlets like 60 Minutes and CNN is that their journalists are part of the same social class as the Washington establishment. It's difficult to be objective when the subject of an interview is also a member of your country club, who might even send his children or grandchildren to the same exclusive school that your kids go to. And the 60 Minutes puff piece that attempted to humanize this monster just made him look like an arrogant prick.
	Top

05-05-2008, 01:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,504 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 119 Times in 92 Posts	Well they were not totally worthless.. cheny got that yellow cake line from one of the tortured guys.......... Sure it later turned out to be shit the guy made up to get some sleep but hey it worked for them both......... They got one more excuse to kill a million IraQi & he got a good night sleep.......... I am sure that all those politicians/liars & "experts" that pushed this crap in the media will fess up soon & come out & just say they were wrong......... It is just around the corner like victory........... They been saying that every six months for 6 years now..... Sooner or later they gotta be right..... RIght.......??? __________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

05-05-2008, 06:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ptech Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Fort Pierce FL Posts: 833 Thanks: 20 Thanked 14 Times in 12 Posts	I saw the interview too. Parsing words is what lawyers do for a living. I understood the point he was trying to make, and I think Kanade pointed it out--punishment is something administered for commission of a crime, in the strict legal meaning. And he was suggesting that since those at Gitmo had not been convicted of a crime, punishment could not possibly have occurred. Which is pure sophistry. This country is in trouble with men like him on the court. 5 out of 9 are Catholic now. I think that is bad news indeed.
	Top

05-06-2008, 09:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
BillCosby The party of the pissed!! Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,504 My Mood: Thanks: 183 Thanked 119 Times in 92 Posts	I actually use to like him........... I have an attorney that has done some work for me........ (does good work to) He is a second cousin of the SOB. Same last name although he pronounces it differently.... __________________ Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror
	Top

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