Hitler, Germans and Genocide - Page 4

MarkMiller · 05-13-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Because Hitler was elected Chancellor in '33 I believe. for all it's bs it was an election.

Uhm.....no it wasn't;

(T)he president reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and DNVP.

On the morning of January 30th, 1933 in Hindenburg's office, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor.

Malkavian · 05-13-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Zaius

Uhm.....no it wasn't;

(T)he president reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and DNVP.

On the morning of January 30th, 1933 in Hindenburg's office, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor.

Hitler's party was still the largest one in Germany, even though he personally lost the election.

Kanadesaga · 05-13-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Zaius

Uhm.....no it wasn't;

(T)he president reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler Chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and DNVP.

On the morning of January 30th, 1933 in Hindenburg's office, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor.

I stand corrected. There were elections throughout '32, but Hitler never won a majority. Funny, he and bush2 were both appointed!!

MarkMiller · 05-13-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

I stand corrected. There were elections throughout '32, but Hitler never won a majority. Funny, he and bush2 were both appointed!!

Yep!

BleedingPinky · 05-13-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

So...what caused it? Pre Hitler were the majority of Germans rational humans only to be transformed into anti-semitic, bigoted mass murderers by Hitler? And that once Hitler died and the war was over they suddenly woke up and realized that they had been duped into doing it by flashy speeches?

Or were Germans nationalist, bigoted pricks before Hitler which is why they elected him and were his willing executioners?

Also...was it unique to Germany? Or were the surrounding countries like France, Belgium etc. equals or near equals in their nationalistic, bigoted tendencies?

That is a very VERY complicated question to answer imho. From what I have read in the past, (everything concerning the 20th century history, especially the first half, has always been very interesting to me), anti-semitism in Europe did not start with Hitler and germans. It goes back to the 14th century or so. Long, long story, dealing not only with religious issues, but with economical ones as well. How could the whole country (Germany) succumb with blind faith to Hitler´s ideas?
He gave the mass hope. Right after wwI, Germany was byting the dust in every sense. The twenties were really bad for them both for economy and as a nation. Versalles treaty left them (imo deserved, but I´m trying not to give my personal thoughts of the subject here) naked.

Political context in Europe was (is) much more complex than it is at the US. Sure the 1929 black friday had it´s consequences, but no ww1 battles were held in American territory nor political systems were (are) as well defined and stable as in the US. Move 100 miles in whatever direction within Europe and you have to learn another language, so to speak.

Whenever whatever country hits the ground, and I mean really hits the ground, war days are close. Make them civil wars or against your neighbours. This individual (Hitler) and his gang used the anti-semitism and the armament industry for rebuilding the german economy. People kept their ears and eyes shut as long as they saw they suddenly could improve their daily lives. There´s some term in sociology (sorry, I can´t remember the name of it) that deals with how people react in such a different way individually as opossed as when packed in like a stadium for a sport event. Now you just have to build that sense of community everywhere (Stalin´s aproach was no different, even regarding racism too, but that´s another story), and then you suddenly turn the mass into stupid sheep. Ouch, too much typing, and I´m sure my English here is rusty as hell, but I hope to have transmitted the idea of how I see it. Oh, and MANY non germans liked the Nazis. No doubt. Vichy republic, Dutchlanders, Swedish, Dannish, etc. But I think not as a whole, just a considerable amount of population. Remember Lindberg? There were a bunch like him in the States too, who favoured Hitlers ideas.

BillCosby · 05-13-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

So...what caused it? Pre Hitler were the majority of Germans rational humans only to be transformed into anti-semitic, bigoted mass murderers by Hitler? And that once Hitler died and the war was over they suddenly woke up and realized that they had been duped into doing it by flashy speeches?

Or were Germans nationalist, bigoted pricks before Hitler which is why they elected him and were his willing executioners?

Also...was it unique to Germany? Or were the surrounding countries like France, Belgium etc. equals or near equals in their nationalistic, bigoted tendencies?

Well my answer is gong to be short & rather cold...........

There were somethings that were different in he way they went about it etc................

But on the other hand was it different in many of the other slaughters that preceded it.......... Or different than what went on in Cambodia or Rwanda???? I am not referring to the actions, how they went about their horrible deeds so much as the mind set in the ppl performing these horrendous acts......

Is murder wrong................???

Is mass murder wrong..............?????

If you are killing hundreds of thousands if not millions of ppl does how it was done matter???

Is bombing more humane than stabbing???

DanS. · 05-13-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedingPinky

That is a very VERY complicated question to answer imho. From what I have read in the past, (everything concerning the 20th century history, especially the first half, has always been very interesting to me), anti-semitism in Europe did not start with Hitler and germans. It goes back to the 14th century or so. Long, long story, dealing not only with religious issues, but with economical ones as well. How could the whole country (Germany) succumb with blind faith to Hitler´s ideas?
He gave the mass hope. Right after wwI, Germany was byting the dust in every sense. The twenties were really bad for them both for economy and as a nation. Versalles treaty left them (imo deserved, but I´m trying not to give my personal thoughts of the subject here) naked.

Political context in Europe was (is) much more complex than it is at the US. Sure the 1929 black friday had it´s consequences, but no ww1 battles were held in American territory nor political systems were (are) as well defined and stable as in the US. Move 100 miles in whatever direction within Europe and you have to learn another language, so to speak.

Whenever whatever country hits the ground, and I mean really hits the ground, war days are close. Make them civil wars or against your neighbours. This individual (Hitler) and his gang used the anti-semitism and the armament industry for rebuilding the german economy. People kept their ears and eyes shut as long as they saw they suddenly could improve their daily lives. There´s some term in sociology (sorry, I can´t remember the name of it) that deals with how people react in such a different way individually as opossed as when packed in like a stadium for a sport event. Now you just have to build that sense of community everywhere (Stalin´s aproach was no different, even regarding racism too, but that´s another story), and then you suddenly turn the mass into stupid sheep. Ouch, too much typing, and I´m sure my English here is rusty as hell, but I hope to have transmitted the idea of how I see it. Oh, and MANY non germans liked the Nazis. No doubt. Vichy republic, Dutchlanders, Swedish, Dannish, etc. But I think not as a whole, just a considerable amount of population. Remember Lindberg? There were a bunch like him in the States too, who favoured Hitlers ideas.

lol...your English is perfect. If I didn't know otherwise I would think it's your primary language.

very good post btw.

Chungar · 05-13-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCosby

Is murder wrong................???

Is mass murder wrong..............?????

If you are killing hundreds of thousands if not millions of ppl does how it was done matter???

Is bombing more humane than stabbing???

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. maybe - just think of the ways that death row inmates are killed - as quickly and humane as possible

These are valid questions but you forgot a couple of things about it...

Is mass murder of particular race, creed, or color wrong?
Definitely Yes

Is that any worse than mass murder of an indiscriminate group?
Definitely Yes, if your a member of the particular race that's being killed

Malkavian · 05-13-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedingPinky

Oh, and MANY non germans liked the Nazis. No doubt. Vichy republic, Dutchlanders, Swedish, Dannish, etc. But I think not as a whole, just a considerable amount of population. Remember Lindberg? There were a bunch like him in the States too, who favoured Hitlers ideas.

Latvians are the worst. That tiny country put up 2 Waffen SS divisions. I mean, Ukrainians put up an army, but that was for Wermacht, and it's not like i can blame them for that... But Latvians? No, they went straight for SS! And they still have parades where veterans of those divisions march proudly. What assholes!

chrisbb · 05-13-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRS112

They knew...and even participated in it...it was horrendous what was done...the scale and efficiency has never been matched in history...and it takes more than a few people to carry that out...it takes more than just turning a blind eye to allow it to happen...there was a group of about 12 people(don't remember what they were called off hand) who were the only people known to fight against the Nazis within Germany....there was never a case where a soldier was punished for refusing to carry out orders to commit genocide....it was more than just turning a blind eye....nationalism was rampant...Germans blamed their economic woes on foreigners and what not....what else do you call it besides bigotry?

I think what Zauis is saying is not every German hated Jews. there were enough however that did. i believe strongly that powerful industrialists helped Hitler into power, and the average person did not like him at all. but as we have seen in America, once the war starts, many people get swept up and support the asshole in charge. i believe this could easily happen again. with groups like the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and Bilderberg group choosing presidents, it is only a matter of time

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