DanS.

Yeah...we've got something similar here too...but I think you can use it elsewhere...not sure though.

The cool thing about the 529 is that it is a federal program and can be used anywhere....it also will give you credits on your state income taxes.

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PUMA
What really got me into this was a negative: lurking on DU I was absolutely repulsed by the disgusting attitude of the obots - speaking as a global politics junkie I never encountered anything like it. I shudder to think of the malignantly orgasmic, frenzied glee that they must be feeling now

PursuitOfHappinessParty

This is the first I've heard of the 529, and I will check it out when I can do so and give it proper attention. Thanks.

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" Tie two birds together and though they have four wings they cannot fly " Blind Master in 'Circle Of Iron'

Quirkygal

You are dead wrong if you believe any person who does not have kids is incapable of understanding the issues. Come on...give people a little credit for being able to think. Whether or not I have kids is irrelevant; what is important is to carry on a conversation with meaningful dialogue...not to judge people by their choices in life. Pay attention to my words and comments and forget about meaningless things.
~~~~~~~~~~

I don't think it's meaningless to say that I understand the pressures of being a working parent.

While I think that someone who has no children can COMPREHEND issues regarding education, it is entirely different from having experienced those issues firsthand.

There's THINKING you know what it's like to be a parent....and then there's BEING A PARENT!!

I can really empathize with the working parents. I know of teachers who don't have kids that are FAR tougher on their students (amount of homework, for instance) than those who have school-age children.

I've also had quite a few conversations with folks who have no children who get pissy about having their money go to public schools.

W.M.DEEEZ

This theme is prevalent in most of your posts, so I won't go retrieve all of them....

You're knocking on the door, but you refuse to step through.

In another post, you asked why other counties are blowing our kids away in education?

Examine two of the most common stereotypes....Asian, and Indian families. These two cultures stress education, and have stricter households than those in America. Education first...everything else when schoolwork is done.

One thing is for sure...if you wish to continue in the direction we are going, things will not get better. The family structure has changed in this country. Decades later, it shows in the numbers you quote re. graduation rates. You would put blame on the system...and to a degree there is enough to go around. What you refuse to acknowledge, is that the family structure is what has changed drastically, not education in general. Wouldn't it be easier to change behavior, as opposed to an entire beaurocracy?

Perhaps in India, and Japan, the family unit is still intact. These cultures aren't as "advanced" as ours, with respect to a number of social issues. More women stay home and raise kids, as opposed to being in the workplace. The numbers speak for themselves.




If the parental involvement has been present from kindergarten, these are non issues by the time the kids are at this stage of education.



.

We're talking gross illiteracy in this country. Forget advanced education where materials are needed. No materials are necessary to learn basic reading/math.




Again...these are non issues if the training began early.

Here, my friend, is the beginning to the answer you seek. In many cases, your numbers are affected by the 4 and 5 generations of illiteracy in a given family. We need to have adult education to teach parents how to help their children w/schoolwork, in the earliest stages of schooling.

You have your expectations, and others have their's. Why would you expect to find a system to educate those who have no interest in education? You must first find a way to create desire. No beaurocracy will do that for you.



Because it is the obvious answer.







As with all things in life, you reap what you sow. If a parent doesn't take the time to make sure the child values an education, then that parent will get what they deserve. If it is a case of a two person income, then they should hire tutors, or perhaps evaluate their own priorities.

You can either change the oil in your car yourself, or if you don't have the time, you can hire a mechanic. Either way, if you don't address the issue, you're going to have a breakdown eventually.



This is a frustrating topic, but much easier to delve into as opposed to which candidate is going to save the country.


The foundation for correcting these problems is simple, yet somehow unattainable. Odd, to say the least.

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Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til it's gone

PursuitOfHappinessParty

And yet these folks that get pissy about education want their employees, people who serve them, protect them, and what-not to be educated enough to do the job
I wonder if these folks without children went to a public school themselves.

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" Tie two birds together and though they have four wings they cannot fly " Blind Master in 'Circle Of Iron'

OldManOnFire

[quote]That you understand the pressures of being a working parent is not meaningless. Whether or not a person is a parent or not is meaningless and their words or comments should not be judged with this bias.

Of course it is different but it should not prohibit anyone from the discussion.

Of course, but once again, whether a person is a parent or not should not affect their interest in discussing public education. After all, the discussion is not about parents, it's about a failing education system. I'm sure most teachers prefer involvement from parents, and in some situations I'll guess they wish some parents would disappear, but my original position was it's a mistake to have 'expectations' from parents since many cannot fulfill those expectations.

I'm sure this happens but it shouldn't make any difference how they teach. Whatever the parental limitations generally are, the education system should be designed with this in mind. To expect all parents to give 100% or even 10% cannot work.

This is why I say that public education funding should never be the decision of the general public. The system should be designed, the implementation costs are fully understood, and Congress provides the funding...period. But so far it appears the administrators can't even provide a meaningful mission statement, so having a successful education system cannot be designed if the mission is not known, which is why the funding is always an issue. And hopefully those who work in education understand some people not wishing to provide funding as they question the 72% graduation rate and other news-worthy issues they hear about...

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

OldManOnFire

I know this is the best and preferred situation, but unfortunately this IS NOT America. I don't know when it happened or why, but somewhere along the way there has been a disconnect between our citizenry and public education. My continued position is if we know many parents cannot contribute as educators wish, then don't design the system around this. Leave parents out of the design equation and assume if there is parental involvement then it's a bonus situation.

First, changing someone's behavior is tantamount to getting Paris Hilton to wear panties...it ain't going to happen. I don't refuse to acknowledge that the family structure has changed. In fact it is because of this fact that I say public education cannot have expectations of parents. It would be great if it was different...but it is not and I don't see this changing.

I would say that Japan and India are very advanced. The fact that more parents stay at home is not necessarily a lack of advancement; it probably is their choice of how to manage a home. I have some firsthand experience with some Asian countries and working moms is commonplace. So I say it's not about work but about structure and priorities.

If I was a teacher and for whatever reason I did not have general supplies, I would demand that the principal find the supplies. My opening statement to the principal might start with; If you cannot provide lousy pieces of paper and pencils and rulers, etc. then how can you be competent to do your job??

IF this could only be accomplished!! Balls!!! said the queen...IF I had them I'd be king!! We can't do much about the education levels of parents but if we educate today's kids, then they will be educated parents in a decade or so. And parental issues are not just about education since there are myriad reasons for so many behaviors.

My way of dealing with this is for parents to be told their kids are not all the same. Some are very smart, some are average, and some have learning disabilities. To expect any of these three groups to perform equally to the other two groups is a design for failure. I think public education needs three avenues for kids; one for each of the categories I just mentioned.

I understand your statement but my issue is that if we have expectations of parents, and they fail to deliver, then it is the kid who suffers. I say don't have expectations of the parents and focus on the kids.

The key feature of public education issues is much like all other critical issues the US faces today...they are basically out of control and the fixes require paradigm shifts and lots of money. Both of which most people are unwilling to commit. As with all the other critical issues, it is frustrating because we discuss this for decades and basically do nothing while we are failing our kids.

This is why it's time to ask questions like; What is the mission of the education system? Why is it mandatory? Do enough citizens care enough to force change? Is this the best we can do? We've got to ask questions that will take us to the root cause and then start from scratch with a new and efficient program...

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

Dawnling

I made a decision to have no children but I don't mind my tax dollars
going to schools.


Those children become adults QUICKLY and I will have to live around them - some where some how.


I remember, in the 1970's, the murmurs about the 'me' generation
ignoring children.
We see that fruit now.

Better to have none than to raise them sloppily.

"Parenting" as a verb is pitifully practiced now.

The main thinking in America about 'parenting' is:

"re-live anything that you want to through your children,
any time that your parents said 'no' to you,
just say 'yes' to your child and
do not understand why your parents said 'no'.
do not train them,
ignore the fact that they WILL NOT remain young and that many lessons MUST be learned when the person is young.
Question nothing. go by feel. enjoy your self and be rude to anyone that you want to. your pleasure is the most important thing."

This way of raising children will not lead to great adults.
Add to this the wide-spread use of computers and the next generation will just live in the matrix, being as violent and sexual as they please... probably for the better of the rest of us.

Any guesses as to what the generation after that is likely to be?

Quirkygal

"My continued position is if we know many parents cannot contribute as educators wish, then don't design the system around this."
~~~~~

Should doctors expect nothing from their patients as well?

Quirkygal

"And hopefully those who work in education understand some people not wishing to provide funding as they question the 72% graduation rate and other news-worthy issues they hear about..."
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Yeah, that's the answer.

Eliminate the funding!