OldManOnFire

More great observations...

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

OldManOnFire

Doctors have wish lists just as teachers have and patients rarely do anything until they get the big wake-up call like a heart attack!

Don't you think every doctor with a patient who is obese asks that patient to get their weight under control? And how many go away and actually do this? How many change their eating habits or their exercise habits? How many are asked to stop smoking but do not?

So should the doctor design his office treatment around 'expectations' or should he treat the symptoms 'assuming' the patient will remain overweight or continue smoking or whatever? If the doctor 'assumes' the patient will go away and lose weight, but the patient does not, and the patients diabetes or whatever gets worse or kills them, then the patient suffered because of expectations that did not materialize. At the inquest the doctor will not be allowed the excuse of saying; oh well...the patient should have lost weight...

Having expectations in any arena, unless those expectations can be founded on encouraging data, is a set-up for failure...or disappointment. When we know the probability of the expectation might be 50/50, then failure or disappointment is almost guaranteed.

What percent of parents on average do you believe are fully involved with their child's education and educators?

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

W.M.DEEEZ

This must be a good thread, because I was outside working, and still pondering these issues.


The problem with numbers/statistics/averages, is that they serve little purpose, other than to make talking points at board meetings.

Your 72% figure doesn't really give an accurate picture.


Many areas have a 95% graduation rate, and many have a 49% rate.


There's your 72% graduation rate, on average. I'm betting that the areas with the 95% rate have a huge number of parents that are involved w/kids education.

Your averages get skewed when you factor in inner city schools, where the majority of students show up for free lunch. So...observe the successful areas, and see how they do it.


You will never get any given population that has no interest in education, to get involved with this education process. I don't care how much money you throw at it.


Once we made it possible to survive by sucking the govt. teat, we created a perfect growing medium for disaster. Decades later, we have drug dealers driving luxury cars, and rap artists owning several mansions....neither are functionally literate. In fact, it has now become fashionable to speak in a language that purposely makes a mockery of every grammatical rule that ever existed.


I've personally seen what happens with dirt poor people who are "hands on" with their kid's education. There is no model for success, other than the desire to succeed. We need to plant those seeds.


I get tired of hearing about poor neighborhoods whose schools are underfunded. Schools are paid for primarily with property tax dollars. The fact that inner cities are sh#tholes is the direct reflection of the occupants of the neighborhood.


Often, this discussion eventually reverts back to whitey keeping the black man down. I want to know why these multi millionaire rap stars/athletes don't start pouring money into these ghettos, and start the ball rolling in the right direction?


I've said it before...it starts with one building in each community, with a day care center (run by local parents), and an adult learning center. Think of what would happen in 10 years.

__________________
Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til it's gone

Quirkygal

The first link is an open letter to the next president:

SDP - An Open Letter to the Next President

Comer is discussed frequently in current teaching programs:

SDP - Overview

From the link:

"The Comer Process is based on certain key assumptions:


Due to a lack of developmental support in their homes and communities, many of today’s children come to school with developmental gaps that impair their ability to learn.
While more children come to school with experience deficits, we expect all students to meet the high standards dictated by today’s workplace and citizenship needs.

The School Development Program recognizes and addresses the experience deficit that inhibits the development of many of today’s children. On the other hand, the SDP does not accept the academic deficit theory that leads to tracking and lowered expectations of minority and ESL students.

The Comer Process is based on the premise that all students can reach high levels of academic achievement. They are entitled to the opportunity to reach their highest potential.

Academic learning rests on a foundation of solid development along six pathways critical to human development. These Six Developmental Pathways are the physical, psychological, language, social, ethical and cognitive pathways.

For students with experience deficits to learn to their highest potential, schools must provide them with the developmental opportunities they lack.

Schools cannot meet this challenge alone, but can mobilize other adult stakeholders, including parents, to help meet the developmental needs of the students."

Quirkygal

I've said it before...it starts with one building in each community, with a day care center (run by local parents), and an adult learning center. Think of what would happen in 10 years.[/quote]

I totally agree with this!

Something has to change.

There are many children who start Kindergarten without knowing the alphabet, numbers, etc. The expectation (state standard) is that these children should be reading and adding & subtracting by the end of Kindergarten.

Similarly, there are many students who have to take remedial courses before they are allowed to take college-level courses.

W.M.DEEEZ

I can't think of a better place to correct this problem, than in the home. No matter how you address this in the school, the underlying problems still exist once the child returns home...no?

I say attack this at the source. It's no small undertaking....thinking about Hillary decades ago w/her "It takes a village" comment.



.

As an educator, you know that first you must get their attention. After that, anything is possible. The art to teaching, is getting that attention.


These two comments seem to contradict each other. But, the latter seems to point out what I've been saying all along.

So...perhaps it would be more effective to address the parents directly, when attempting to find the panacea. If this means setting up programs to educate/instill pride in the parents, so be it. At least there isn't that nagging, negative ambiance, when the student returns home.

__________________
Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til it's gone

Quirkygal

"Don't you think every doctor with a patient who is obese asks that patient to get their weight under control? And how many go away and actually do this? How many change their eating habits or their exercise habits? How many are asked to stop smoking but do not?"
~~~~~~
Don't you think that *most* teachers (I hear you on the bell curve thing...) tell their students to study for the test, review the vocabulary, conjugate the verbs, memorize the formulas, study the multiplication facts, complete the science fair project...?

Once they're out the door, there is nothing more the teacher can do.

Also, don't forget that in most classrooms there are still horrible ratios. The kids who need the extra support don't get it due to things the teacher cannot control (state budget cuts...thanks Gov. S!)

I agree with you *wholeheartedly* that the teacher-to-student ratios need to be improved.


As for getting the kids to and from school:

Use the bus.

Homework:

Make a phone call. Call a neighbor, friend or the school secretary. My kids' school has a homework hotline.

I think having ZERO expectations from the families is setting the bar too LOW!!

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

BleedingPinky

I do not want to get involved in any discussion. Everyone´s thoughts and perspectives of the issue typed here in this thread has sense to me. Strictly speaking as someone trying to show students how beautiful math is, it is disgusting. I guess we profesors also need a course of phsycology. Where the hell has discipline gone? (Ouch, I ain´t a four eyed guy still...)

jdanton

My view is that school is unecessarily boring. No one takes the opportunity to "inspire" the kids to learn. Testing is done on an "ease of grading" type test.

When's the last time you heard anyone under 40 say, "He and I went..." as opposed to "Me and John......"

Last time I went to my grandaughter's school, I pointed out to the kids that the dictionary is full of words that someone else has already figured out how to spell and what they mean.

What do we make more of in our lives than anything else?

DECISIONS.

The more knowledge we have, the better decisions we'll make. the better the decisions we make, the better our lives will be, no?

Or, as MAD magazine once put it: Learn by the mistakes of others, cause you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

__________________
Author: Memoirs of a Sleepless Mind, a book you CAN judge by its cover.

jdanton

In my book, I have a page on how students should be taught something about money management in day to day living.

I see all the parents at "sporting events" so involved, but I'm not sure they're helping the kids.

Seems our entire education system, hell, our entire system, is geared to finding future players for major league sports.

__________________
Author: Memoirs of a Sleepless Mind, a book you CAN judge by its cover.