OldManOnFire

I wish when I was very young that my parents or teachers or anyone would have enlightened me about the Universe...from the micro to the macro...and how the stars and our bodies and everything we know is common stuff...and that the catalyst or language for all of this is math and science...not only would this have given me a greater appreciation of my speck in time and space, but it would have helped me connect the dots much quicker...

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

OldManOnFire

[quote]One cannot inspire another who does not wish to be inspired or lacks capabilities to be inspired.

If we stopped treating all kids the same, and we put them on 3 or more paths based on their skill-set, then we could challenge them, we might inspire them, and hopefully we would succeed with them. But as long as we group so many, some will be bored and unchallenged, others will do fine, and some will be over-challenged and perhaps broken.

The education system needs more than Band-aid solutions...

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

OldManOnFire

Off-topic some but thanks for being a good sport in these conversations. I'm opinionated, cantankerous and extraterrestrial and I know my words can be direct and hard. And thanks to everyone on this thread who has compassion for the topic and continues to contribute great dialogue...thanks!!

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

Kanadesaga

[quote=OldManOnFire;205039]What I have been saying from the beginning! hello!?


It is exactly because we treat all kids the same that we are in the mess we are in. Factory education has been the model for years and when you had a regimented society, it worked. It doesn't work today, NCLB is factory education.


No one wants to spend the money where it belongs.

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OldManOnFire

[quote]Okay...you can have credit for saying something correct.

Just think of the distractions kids have today compared to when we were young?? We had almost no TV except Saturday morning cartoons, some roller skates and a bicycle and a few board games--that's about it. Today kids have a billion distractions. Worse yet, back then 'most' were stay-at-home moms while today this is probably not the norm. And, I remember having liberties but they came within a structure...and if I stepped outside of that structure...bam!!! Today kids and parents all want total freedom...no structure or limited structure...freedom to express themselves...and a 'I'll sue you attitude'.

Yeah lots of things have changed...some good and some bad.


This is why I keep saying that funding cannot be the decision of the general public. It should be mandated by Congress...period and equitable across the entire school system...

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

Jonesy

There are some demented Republicans controlling the public school system. They seem to have no understanding of the intent behind the United States public education system. The function is to ensure democracy and freedom survive. An ignorant populace cannot possibly protect themselves from government, as has been witnessed countless times throughout history.

The United States government is a government of science and empiricism. Even so, 'faith-based' politicians continue wrecking the system to further their political ambitions.

PursuitOfHappinessParty

[quote=OldManOnFire;206648]Very sound and correct observations.

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" Tie two birds together and though they have four wings they cannot fly " Blind Master in 'Circle Of Iron'

OldManOnFire

There are a lot of demented people out there...not just Republicans.

My problem with the US education system is that no one within the system seems to know the true mission of the program?? Is the goal to provide a little reading, a little writing, and a little arithmetic? Is the goal to prepare kids for college? Is the goal to create a populace which is competitive in world manpower markets?

Maybe the reason our government does not wish to have clear education goals is because if they set any reasonable standards at all, first we would never have the funding and second we don't have the faculty and administrators. Currently there is a 72% graduation rate...is this the best we can do???

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

OldManOnFire

Some of you might think these are harsh and unnecessary words while others will see them for the reality in which they exist and how they fit or not into a public education system.

Some people will refer to these categories of kids as the 'lowest common denominator' and blame some of the failures of public education on this. Others will feel that all kids no matter their capabilities or limitations are entitled to a public education.

What are your comments on grouping these 'special' kids with all other kids??

1. Special Education; kids with special needs requirements, autism, Downs, mental retardation, etc.

2. English Language Learners; kids who enter kindergarten only knowing their native language...usually Spanish.

3. Bad kids; those always in trouble with the law, not attending school regularly, no study habits, high drop-out potential.

4. Poverty; those kids with nothing, maybe a roof over their heads, very poor nutrition, no place to study, few clothes.

5. Academic failures; should we 'enable' kids by passing them onto the next grades or should we introduce them to 'reality' and fail them, hold them back one or more grades?

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Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

PursuitOfHappinessParty

I'll first go with a blanket statement to the above. We both know that alternative schools are too expensive to build and maintain, with the numbers involved being not enough to justify the cost.
That leaves special education classes, which schools have now. My suggestion is to take a harder-line approach, a realistic look at the child in question and to change educational formats as opposed to passing the kid thru a feel-good, does nothing type of program like many we see being used today. The alternative is to water down over-all curriculums and weaken the whole system for every child.

The average kid's education does not need to be held comparable to either brilliant children or special/failing kids. In your examples, I see none that should be allowed to impact other kid's curriculum.


I would say that it depends on the location. Big cities can and often do afford special schools. Other's would need special classes.

Under no circumstances should a non-Englsih speaking child be allowed to attend public school.


Hold them to their GPA, just like the old days.

I don't know that poor nutrition is a huge factor. Every school I've ever encountered has school lunch programs (incl. breakfast) for the poor. You can study anywhere, I did.

What is school really for? Babysitting? If so, then by all means pass them as the only use for school is to keep them occupied during the daytime.
Not babysitting? Then the answer is in the question. School is for schooling.

Pass them if they pass, fail them if they fail.

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" Tie two birds together and though they have four wings they cannot fly " Blind Master in 'Circle Of Iron'