BleedingPinky

Agreed with many of the things I´ve read here. Too much to multi-quote, so I´ll just throw in a few thoughts.
Where to start. Phew... Ok. It´s a US public education thread, I know, but many things you describe are applyable elsewhere. Parents involved in their children´s education. Ditto. That´s a fact REALLY missed nowadays. Mixed with a complete tard decaffeinated-way-down-the-lowest expentancy of what the minimum standards should be as to what backround you should have as a student before going to college (or for real life issues, for the matter), thanks in most part to politicians every 4 years, brings up complete passive analphabetic-useless kids. And it deffinately is not their fault for sure. But it´s there. How are you supposed to teach a 19 year old kid how (for example) to deal with power series, when he-she doubts when asked to simplify the most simplest fraction? Or like yesterday morning at the classroom. This youngster doubted about what was the result of 4*7. At a Biology Mathematics course (a bit of calculus, a bit of linear algebra, and that´s it).
It´s frustrating, at least for me it is. Then comes the use of computers. Ok, slick powerpoint stuff. Great. Easier first sight for both teaching and learning. Give the kid everything, theory and solved problems all in a neat pack so he-she won´t ´lose´time hand writing. Great. Give him a blank sheet a pen and a task. He doesn´t know where to start out. It´s like when you go say, ´ok, I´m going to surf the web a bit and learn some history. You read, and read, and read, but DO NOT RETAIN the information. Pasive analphabetism I think it´s called. As I say to my students, hey, do you think someone can learn to ride a bike by watching some cool youtube video?
Don´t get me wrong, I use the computer a lot for teaching, it´s great for some stuff, but it is NOT the panacea.
Oops, rant and poor english off....

Quirkygal

Also, like I originally stated, what is the mission of public education?? Is it to create certain types of US citizens? Is it to prepare kids for the workplace? Is it for baby-sitting while parents work or play? Why is it mandatory and not optional? To answer these questions, or even guess at the answers, one must be able to step back to the edge of space and take a real wide look at the program. To be honest, I don't even know the mission of the public education program--do you??
~~~~~~
Good questions.

I am 100% behind having NATIONAL standards. It's simply asinine that we don't. (For some sort of an answer look to your state, then to the county, then to the district.)

Content Standards - Standards & Frameworks (CA Dept of Education)

I don't really have much time to post tonight, but I will revisit this thread over the weekend.

Quirkygal

I'll kindly disagree with this to the extent it's not required. I always comment that there's only three things parents must provide to their kids regarding education; Food in their stomachs, a good nights rest, and a dedicated place to study.
~~~~~
Well, again we will agree to disagree.

I expect more than that.

Quirkygal

As I say to my students, hey, do you think someone can learn to ride a bike by watching some cool youtube video?
~~~~~
Two words:

Active participation!


What do you teach?

OldManOnFire

I just opened this site: U.S. Department of Education Home Page
U.S. Department of Education

Their tag line is 'Promoting Educational Excellence For All Americans'.

First, this is not promoted, and second there is little to no excellence in the public education system.

The website goes on to say:

OVERVIEW

ED was created in 1980 by combining offices from several federal agencies. ED's mission is to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access. ED's 4,200 employees and $68.6 billion budget are dedicated to:

• Establishing policies on federal financial aid for education, and distributing as well as monitoring those funds.
• Collecting data on America's schools and disseminating research.
• Focusing national attention on key educational issues.
• Prohibiting discrimination and ensuring equal access to education.


OMOF comment; if a 72% average graduation rate, and the questionable criteria needed to obtain this graduation, are in any way preparing kids for 'global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence...' then I guess I'm simply not paying attention??

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

OldManOnFire

And this leads to part of the problem. There cannot be any expectations of the parents or the kids. Some can have greater impacts on their kids while others cannot. So instead of hoping for parents to do certain things, I say this must be dismissed and focus on the basics; food, sleep and a place to study. Obviously many parents can't even provide these basics so how can you expect them on average to do more?

Actually an ideal situation is a boarding school environment; they are required to sleep, they receive good nutrition, they have places to study, and they have structure. But this is not going to happen.

One thing we can't stand in this country is to be told our kids are different than others. The truth is, on a bell curve, there are 30% who have learning difficulties, there are 20% who are over-achievers, and there are 50% who are average. I made up the percentiles but the actual numbers are probably close to these.
Assuming this bell curve philosophy, it almost makes sense to have three separate educational systems?? Everyone starts out in one system then at whatever age their capabilities can be known, they branch off into the system that will work best for them.

To take a kid with learning difficulties and expect them to over-achieve is a formula for disaster. To take a kid with above-average capabilities and expect them to under-achieve is a formula for disaster. To burden the average students with the other two groups is a formula for disaster...

__________________
Did you know both our problems and the solutions can be found simply by looking in our mirrors...and...Never confuse the extraordinary stuff I think and write with that of a well-balanced person...

Kanadesaga

I've been reading for awhile now, and I have a few things to say. first, I am sick and tired of it always being the fault of tenured teachers. Name me another profession where you are judged not on your work, but the work of 180 other people. Other people NOT motivated by a paycheck, 180 people who are dealing with raging hormones and shitty homelifes and cultural pressures telling them that school is for losers, chumps and nerds!

You do realize that as children enter school in Kindergarten they want to learn, they are sponges! and somewhere by middle school that drive is gone, squelched by peer pressure and real life shit that many of us older types can't relate to because we never had to deal with it.

So before you blame tenure or teachers take a look at yourself if you're a parent. And yourslel if you're not. Are there bad teachers? Of course they are. There are also bad CEOs, machinists and presidents. But by and large just as you can't make a horse drink, you can't make a child learn if they don't want to! and if you think it easy to motivate 180 children everyday, try it first, then I'll listen to your opinion.!!!

__________________

Kanadesaga

AND... when I went to school, if a teacher hit you, (they could) the last thing you wanted was your parents finding out. You got punished again. Nowadays the damn parents want to sue you if you hurt their kid's feelings!

Teachers have been falsely accusedof abuse and other horrendous things and the child is always believed and you are guilty until proven innocent. and even if you are, your reputation is forever ruined.

So you people bitching about teachers, do it teach, then I'll listen otherwise just as I wouldn't tell a doctor how to do his job, don't tel me how to do mine. I am a professional.


treat me as such.

__________________

BleedingPinky

I guess it depends on the context. I was (and still) thinking of early school years. Make that up until at least the kid is 12 years old. If not parents, at least someone who really cares.

I am a mathematician and I have been teaching for 15 years, so I think I know what active participation means.

100% agreed here.

Quirkygal

I am a mathematician and I have been teaching for 15 years, so I think I know what active participation means.
~~~~~
Yeah, I'd say so.

The thing that has surprised me most about teaching (K-8) is that I actually enjoy teaching math. (I did not enjoy math as a kid.) It's so straightforward! It is much harder to teach kids how to write or how to put together a report.

Middle school, high school or college?