ppatt

The paper thin conflation of anyone wanting dialogue with those considered to be enemies of freedom with the most readily available example in the form of Neville Chamberlain is just another moldy, old right wing talking point that doesn't bear up under the slightest scrutiny. But we never really expect something deep from those proudly displaying no more than 8th grade knowledge of history, do we?

At this current point in history the US alone, by virtue of those engaging in such ignorant mindless parroting of instructed talking points, distinguishes itself as not only a hasty judge, dividing all others into one of two camps...with us or against us, but also as a country that has replace a proud history of diplomacy with a facade of vitriolic bluster.

Somehow for almost a decade we have willfully decided to elevate our uglier, ignorant side in the form of elected leaders, who many somehow believe are better suited for the post-911 world, for the entire world to see. But instead, all we got was bluster, posturing and a lot of damage to reputation and influence worldwide.

I know that most have seen it but here it is again in all its glory, as a distilled reflection of our fearless, chickenhawk President...one just like all the rest -- a member of the right wing anti-appeasement coalition:


As fashionable as it has become in the last 8 years to get our cherry picked historical anecdotes from those knowing little or nothing of history we might best pull ourselves out of the hole we're in by doing things a little differently...by not seeking anecdotes that suit some momentary, diffuse level or irritation of unknown origin but by actually forming opinion around some intelligent attempt to discern historical fact.

Those daring to take the plunge can rest assured that they can quickly flee back to the warm, reassuring comfort of that vessel of misinformation, the Fox mothership if the experience turns out to be too stressful or confusing.

Maybe the English might best speak to the historical fact surrounding Neville Chamberlain who was, after all, one of their own. What the hell? Why not shoot the moon and hear from someone who actually makes it their business to study history and maybe even write about it?

That might make them one of those elitist intellectual types we're being told we should be sick and tired of, but wouldn't it be reasonable to listen to just a little of what they have to say?

So I found one, fairly well regarded across the pond. She seems to have a slightly better grasp of the situation than the conservative expert from the video up above. She seems to be saying that when you are not very knowledgeable, aren't too motivated to seek knowledge and surround oneself by a somewhat extreme group of likeminded idealogues that you sometimes make mistakes -- either going to war in circumstances that do not call for it (wrong country?) or in rare cases not using the military when it is the last remaining viable option.

But that takes knowing history rathern than simply making up conclusions to fix pre-existing beliefs.

Read for yourself...

Heretic

I especially got a kick out of the traitor, Oliver North coming out to say no one should talk with Iran lest they be appeasers.

Uhh... Hey jackass. YOU FUCKIN' SOLD THEM TOP NOTCH AIR DEFENSE MISSILES AT REAGAN's BEHEST!!!

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"In space no one can hear you scream. in D.C. it won't matter..." -Clinton Resurrection: The Alien Queen lives!

ibex

You'd have to be completely illitertate or have amnesia not to see the hypocrisy of North's stance. I am not an expert in history and don't claim to be that well read but if I can remember that Neville Chamberlain signed away the Sudatenland region of what was then Czechoslovokia in 1938, paving the way for Hitler to annex the whole country and invade Poland the following year, then some hack who tosses out the name of the "Peace in Our Time" PM should be aware of his role in history as well. Maybe it's the sorry state of education in the public schools or even at institutions of so called higher learning like Liberty University. Or maybe the right wing is so full of delusional retards that explains the notion that facts count less than the agenda being put forth.

ppatt

Delusional retards is a likely explanation. They, like Bush, believe that they can gaze into another's eyes and discern their soul. Authoritarian followers base everything on cult of personality, devoid of any logic or sometimes even fact-checking. When they are scared there are attracted to the one with an angry, vengeful demeanor. When they are confused they will cling to any idiot acting the part of a supremely confident leader, impervious to subtlety, nuance or even the reasons why things happen. They are ashamed enough of where they lie on the socioeconomic scale that the only affinity they seek is someone who looks, feels and sounds like them, knowing well that such a person would never better their situation.

Another source of their affinity with Bush who they perceive as having grit like they do. When confronted with facts the only thing to do is just do dig the heels in and say you know better. That is mstaken for grit and determination rather than ignorance.

It is enough for them to be praised and stroked for their values and strength. When that's all you have hope of getting it is better than nothing. There is no value placed on how things stack up in the final analysis because there is no analysis just a feeling of comfort from shared fears.

You can call it manipulation but I wonder if it really is if it is consciously welcomed. It is a choice...one made out of baser instincts and not in one's long term interests but a choice nonetheless.

Politicians distinguish themselves only to the extent that they play to these baser instincts. Forget any role of wise, benevolent parent who would appeal to reason. The lids off the cookie jar and it is fatty snackys and sugar till bedtime, instead of dinner.

The really sad thing about this is the susceptibility to conflation but it's a matter of trust. Never mind the facts of Bush's contradictions. There's a double standard and Bush can talk to anyone because he is Bush and meaner'n a texas rattler. If Obama talks he will give away the farm because he's a liberal and that's what liberals do.

It is that simple given the workings of the reptilian mind.

BillCosby

Seems to me that his knowledge of appeasement is consistent w/ his knowledge or lack there of, about everything... Especially history......

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Preventive war is not war!!!!Counter-terror is not terror

Jonesy

Republicans prefer the silent-treatment. It is a highly effective tactic they learned in pre-school.