Hate is the underpinning of the "modern" Republican Party - Page 10

Brainpolice · 01-02-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentor

I think our evolving understanding of nature changes our philosophy, and in a sense, our relationship with it. We have long believed that we are separate from nature, and therefore in conflict with it. But there have long been those who understood that we are a part of nature. Still, nature is not all conflict. It is a story of cooperation as well. It seems to me that schools of thought or political systems are like species in punctuated equalibrium. Once they have adapted into their niche, they become rather fixed, and usually fail to adapt to new circumstances. Then new, more nimble ideas and systems replace them (usually with new, young minds), while the old ones continue on their course, guided by their inertia alone.

You mentioned a few things that I agree with, particularly the fact that we are a part of nature and that human nature does not necessarily entail a state of perpetual and absolute conflict, with no social cooperation at all. I made a video on a similar topic recently, in which I reject the idea that we are separate from nature and that it is possible to escape a state of nature.

Here's the video.

YouTube - On Human Nature

Resolving a few false dychotomies:

1. Humans vs. Nature
2. State of nature vs. Civilization
3. Inherently Good vs. Inherently Evil
4. Determinism vs. Radical Subjectivism

Brainpolice · 01-02-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kblair7

Perhaps, however the entropy of life is that all systems of organization, especially political, will eventually descend into chaos or a state of disorganization.

Well, while I agree that entropy is at play, we part ways in how we view it. I see it as a good thing, and I don't necessarily think that it implies "chaos", but rather a dynamic process of weeding out inefficiency. I look foreward to entropy. I'm not a misanthrope, but I just don't see decentralization as a bad thing in any way. I don't see it as a lack of organization so much as a lack of centralization. Organization can still exist on an extremely decentralized level (the most decentralized, of course, being an anarchy).

Quote:

They will then, though conflict (usually war or revolution), reorganize into a new order or hierarchy.

I don't really have a problem with voluntary heirarchy. What I object to is monocentrism or centralization (in contrast to polycentrism or decentralization). That is a very different thing then heirarchy.

Quote:

Nature is conflict, its violence of survival, even at the genetic level.

The problem is that humans have a capacity to avoid such conflict. We do not need to rely on violence for survival. We have developed a division of labor instead. This is what makes "society" possible in the first place. In the long-run, it is more beneficial for us to trade with eachother then to have universal theft. Even people who act out in criminal manners are ultimately harming the very social order that benefits them. It is against their rational self-interest. Are human beings fallible? Yes. Are human beings capable of conflict and violence? Yes. Are most human beings violent towards eachother in their everyday lives? No.

Quote:

Hobbes's argument is right on par, that it is human nature to be in constant conflict with the natural world, and between each other. Basically, as long as we have divergent perspectives on how the human race should be organized, (religion, race, politics, sex) there were always be conflict, and that is how we evolve.

If Hobbe's vision of mankind were true, mankind would not still exist. We would have already engaged in mutual self-destruction. And, once again, we still live in the "natural world". There is no way to escape living in the "natural world". Even in establishing an institution such as a government, we do not escape nature, nor do we necessarily end conflict (arguably, we create more conflict). I consider this theoretical "state of nature" in which everyone is constantly inflicting aggression on eachother to essentially be a myth, a dangerous myth that has been used time and time again in the attempt to justify every tyranny known to man.

Dawnling · 01-02-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al Asaad

Hate and fear that is. Scared white guys, their wives and daughters ruling the roost at home, their female co-workers ruling in the workplace: hell the women even want to box and play NFL football.
Then you have Gays, Blacks, "Hispanics" and others who are muscling in on what was 100% white guy's "good ole boy perogatives.
White guys are outnumbered by their women who themselves are outnumbered by single women.

So blatant fear and loathing drives and has driven white guys to the Republican Party, itself the haven for a multiplicity of hate groups like the NRA and other racist-sexist organizations whose mantra is to tell white guys who and what is going to fux them (and fux over them) next.

Homosexuals, whom white guys rails against 24/7, have been revealed to be, a least in national Party politics-white guys themselves:
think of it: white male homosexuals driving the fear and "talking point" machines of their nefarious Party.
*"Errr": for those of you who are confused or apparently do not know the "score": it does not matter whether you are/were the penetrator or penetratee: both of you have committed a homosexual act.

And as Pogo says: "we (Republicans) have met the enemy and he is us".

I agree.
Born into and taught the seeds of thought that come from
"manifest denstiny" ( so very akin to Hitler's ideas ),

the financially comfortable wrap themselves in protection
and wallow in profound ignorance.

They paint themselves a Disney World,
screaming at and smashing anything that does not
match the inside of their oh-so-finite head-contents

Kanadesaga · 01-03-2008, 02:03 PM

This is all very interesting. No sarcasm intended. My statements about man and war I believe are accurate. Why? Becuase I think man is warlike, because it is a solution that has worked before and will work again. It was our violence that probably ended the Neadrathals. Competition for resources led not to a collaboration by ancient peoples but rather violence. Because it was they easy way to get what you wanted.

Can man rise above it? Of course he can. I agree with Brainpolice about the Hobbsian view I gave. Look at such institutions the UN, Articles of Confederation or even the Iroquios Confederacy. They all try to provide for the common good and common defence. and they all did a rather good job for what they do. (NO< I do not want to get into a discussion about the Articles right now)

My point is I guess, that it is always the easy way humans take, and the easy way is war.

Jonesy · 01-04-2008, 09:18 PM

One should be careful with hate. It unlocks many doors one should not go through.

Dawnling · 01-05-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

This is all very interesting. No sarcasm intended. My statements about man and war I believe are accurate. Why? Becuase I think man is warlike, because it is a solution that has worked before and will work again. It was our violence that probably ended the Neadrathals. Competition for resources led not to a collaboration by ancient peoples but rather violence. Because it was they easy way to get what you wanted.

Can man rise above it? Of course he can. I agree with Brainpolice about the Hobbsian view I gave. Look at such institutions the UN, Articles of Confederation or even the Iroquios Confederacy. They all try to provide for the common good and common defence. and they all did a rather good job for what they do. (NO< I do not want to get into a discussion about the Articles right now)

My point is I guess, that it is always the easy way humans take, and the easy way is war.

Sports are a highly evolved and effective solution for war.

I cannot say this loudly or often enough.

Dawnling · 01-05-2008, 12:57 AM

In looking at the biped record,
it was found that there was a
very aggresive version living at the same time as a smaller, calmer version.

The beasty ones died off and the others went on for quite a while.

How was this info gleaned?

Tooth marks of same speices on fossil bones and
other clear messages left in the strata.

Eman, do you know the definition of "strata"?

Kanadesaga · 01-05-2008, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnling

Sports are a highly evolved and effective solution for war.

I cannot say this loudly or often enough.

Do you really think so? No cheating? No universal governing body? No war is the final (sometimes first) solution of lazy minds. It has a finality to it and no instant replay.

Jonesy · 01-07-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Do you really think so? No cheating? No universal governing body? No war is the final (sometimes first) solution of lazy minds. It has a finality to it and no instant replay.

Dawn might be right..... me vs. you, you lose, but maybe my brain is satisfied?

Dawnling · 01-07-2008, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanadesaga

Do you really think so? No cheating? No universal governing body? No war is the final (sometimes first) solution of lazy minds. It has a finality to it and no instant replay.

If we eliminate the practice and idea of
'war',
we do not eliminate human
fierceness.

Sports are an effective and lucrative outlet
for this fierceness

01-03-2008, 02:03 PM	#94 (permalink)
Kanadesaga Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NYS - Devil's country Posts: 7,080 My Mood: Blog Entries: 6 Thanks: 232 Thanked 93 Times in 67 Posts	This is all very interesting. No sarcasm intended. My statements about man and war I believe are accurate. Why? Becuase I think man is warlike, because it is a solution that has worked before and will work again. It was our violence that probably ended the Neadrathals. Competition for resources led not to a collaboration by ancient peoples but rather violence. Because it was they easy way to get what you wanted. Can man rise above it? Of course he can. I agree with Brainpolice about the Hobbsian view I gave. Look at such institutions the UN, Articles of Confederation or even the Iroquios Confederacy. They all try to provide for the common good and common defence. and they all did a rather good job for what they do. (NO< I do not want to get into a discussion about the Articles right now) My point is I guess, that it is always the easy way humans take, and the easy way is war. __________________ Bill has the Blues Saturdays 10 pm to Midnight est www.whws.fm Thanksgiving Show 9pm to 1 am
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01-04-2008, 09:18 PM	#95 (permalink)
Jonesy Truth Lion Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,554 Thanks: 10 Thanked 32 Times in 23 Posts	One should be careful with hate. It unlocks many doors one should not go through.
	Top

01-05-2008, 12:57 AM	#97 (permalink)
Dawnling Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: DC Posts: 1,422 My Mood: Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	In looking at the biped record, it was found that there was a very aggresive version living at the same time as a smaller, calmer version. The beasty ones died off and the others went on for quite a while. How was this info gleaned? Tooth marks of same speices on fossil bones and other clear messages left in the strata. Eman, do you know the definition of "strata"?
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